2024 WAG Euros TFs

[ArnoldRimmer]

I don't think she fell (12.8) but she had a leg up wobble on the switch half and a wolf turn wobble as well IIRC. Christine made a point about holding the candle mount handstand position today so perhaps she missed that as well.

The angle wasn't great, but I thought she'd missed it at the time.

 

[MrSixkiller]

Thanks everyone for the quickhits! Just catching up now. Poor Romania...

The difference was Cosman’s vault and Voinea’s switch half. I place the blame fully on Camelia’s choice to cut back on the drug store cosmetics today.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The difference was Cosman’s vault and Voinea’s switch half. I place the blame fully on Camelia’s choice to cut back on the drug store cosmetics today.

Anything that starts with 'I place the blame fully on Camelia' has my full support.

 

[Puffin]

I don't know why Romania are bothering to have Sabrina train a 2nd vault this year - she did a tucked tsuk full (3.8 D) in qualification. Surely it would be better to spend the time cleaning up the DTY? She is only scoring mid 13s on the DTY so gets very little benefit over those doing the Y1.5. A weak 2nd vt is really wasting her time at this stage

I mean Camelia was talking Amanar and Cheng last year - but now she only barely has a DTY

 

[Passion]

Romania doesn't have a say in anything Sabrina trains, her mom trains her separately from the rest of the team.

 

[onodian]

Speaking about poor camelia choices, why is sabrina doing a LO 1/1? Are they planning on putting the tuck full where the LO is now, a la iordache? Cause right now it makes no sense

 

[MaryClare]

Speaking about poor camelia choices, why is sabrina doing a LO 1/1? Are they planning on putting the tuck full where the LO is now, a la iordache? Cause right now it makes no sense

I’d assumed no, since if the layout isn’t credited it gets marked as a tuck full

 

[onodian]

I mean they would credit at least a pike, no? there's no bend in the knees I thought?

 

[Bob]

Manila Esposito really is something special

I love her - her split jumps remind me of Mustafina

 

[Bob]

I think the French team will be Melanie, Marine, Coline, Ming and Lorette.

VT: Ming, Melanie, Coline
UB: Marine, Lorette, Melanie
BB: Lorette, Melanie, Marine
FX: Ming, Marine, Melanie

Btw, Ming probably holds the record for number of countries any gymnast is eligible to represent!

What countries can Ming represent. Obviously France but her surname sounds Dutch or Belgian.

 

[KorbutFan]

Does China need a vaulter?

 

[MaryClare]

Does China need a vaulter?

She’s from Hong Kong

 

[MaryClare]

What countries can Ming represent. Obviously France but her surname sounds Dutch or Belgian.

Her full name is Ming Gherardi Van Eijken, so there is some Italian there too. She was born in Hong Kong.

 

[Ginger]

Her full name is Ming Gherardi Van Eijken, so there is some Italian there too. She was born in Hong Kong.

Ming = Hong Kong/China
Gherardi = Italian
Van Eijken = Dutch

 

[Aeris]

I didn't pay attention before, but the D-panel missed the boat with Voinea's beam routine in this full-point downgrade fiasco. What happened here is also an example of many wrong things in the code:



The first possibility is they said her Switch 1/2 was only a (repeated) Switch Leap. That's wrong since she did the 1/2 turn properly. At the same time, to still arrive at 5.5 D score, they must have also said her Split leap 1/2 is a Tour jete. This is not a Tour jete, the back leg should be far above horizonal for that.

Note how "Split leap 1/1" (which she has been attempting, but only went for Split 1/2 here) does not actually exist in the beam code. That skill is only listed as "Tour jete with additional 1/2 turn", which is something nobody does. Her short split 1/1 attempts have been getting downgraded to a Tour jete. In reality it should be called as Split Leap 3/4 (D rating), which doesn't exist in the code, since they keep refusing to recognize dance skills in 1/4 increments unless it's a straddle leap.

On floor exercise, both the split leap 1/1 and "tour jete with additional 1/2" exist in the code. But again, nobody really does a "tour jete with additional 1/2". The funny thing is, nobody strictly does a "split leap with 1/1 turn either". A strict Split 1/2 or 1/1 leap would mean the leg that swings into the leap is staying behind during the turn. Everyone instead uses a "tour jete-esque" technique of swinging that leg to forwards position, but that doesn't make it a tour jete, since there's never an attempt to raise the back leg far above horizontal in a diagonal split.

A second possibility for the 5.5 D-score is they called her Split leap 1/2 as a Switch 1/2 (wrong), creating the same issue of discrediting her real Switch 1/2 and removing all of the composition requirement and connections linked to it. Even if she had repeated a skill, the code should not be so inflexible about rewarding CR and CV credit. Routines should get credit for repeated skills in whichever order benefits the gymnast the most.

Most of the time this "repeat" nonsense happens it's not an actual repeated skill to begin with, it's a different skill that was underturned (or didn't execute the 1/2 turn with proper technique). What should happen in all of these downgrade cases is the downgraded skill should still be seen as the attempted skill, just with lowered D-value, and of course with appropriate deduction. Leaps and jumps on beam should be recognized in 1/4-turn increments anyway, as they are in other codes. Zhang Qinging for example does a nice Straddle jump 3/4. There's no good reason that can't exist as its own C-rated skill in the code.

 

[hmmmm]

The next question is... Why didn't Romania submit an inquiry?

 

[Gymfan93]

They apparently did- according to some users on Twitter, anyway. I suppose it was rejected.

 

[navyblue]

Everyone instead uses a "tour jete-esque" technique of swinging that leg to forwards position, but that doesn't make it a tour jete, since there's never an attempt to raise the back leg far above horizontal in a diagonal split.

Yeah I'm personally not a fan of calling these skills - like a Gogean - a "split leap" because it conjures the image of this floaty split leap that somehow transitions into a mid-air turn. Which is pretty much impossible for the 1.5 twists of a Gogean. Maybe you could get a 0.5 twist around, but it's practically hypothetical because no one really does anything other than the tour jete style 'switch leg' technique in a leap (now, in a split jump, sure). I don't really care if the WTC bastardizes the language from dance, as long as it's consistent. For whatever reason the 'tour jete' on beam and floor describes the cross-split technique and landing on one foot, but once you add turns it only signifies the entry technique. Even though the Gogean illustration impractically seems to still show a 'cross-split' but then the language allows for landing on "both feet", while Box 1.201 (the tour jete sans additional turn) does not but obviously should.

I guess it's honestly impossible to know what the judges did here without them explaining it. The fact that the inquiry was turned down is just wild.

all of these downgrade cases is the downgraded skill should still be seen as the attempted skill

I'm in agreement with this for 90% of cases, but perhaps worth noting that in this particular beam routine, it's actually hard to pretend that Voinea's skill was anything other than the 1/2 turn split leap / tour jete, because unlike her other routines, she didn't even make it to 3/4 turn, nor did she attempt to cheat the twist around to face the proper 'full' turn direction. Hard to know if Voinea actually intentionally did this due to feedback, or if she just balked on the skill.

 

[Aeris]

She probably intended the 1/2 turn since the full turning attempt kept landing short and bringing deductions. Whatever amount of rotation she achieved in the split leap, it has nothing to do with her switch leap anyway, and her switch 1/2 was turned correctly, so there's 0 reason that skill should have been invalidated.

Yeah I'm personally not a fan of calling these skills - like a Gogean - a "split leap" because it conjures the image of this floaty split leap that somehow transitions into a mid-air turn. Which is pretty much impossible for the 1.5 twists of a Gogean.

Yes it's not really possible to do a Split leap 1.5 without the extra leg swing, but I think it's more accurate to label them as split leaps than tour jete's, because the more important thing is the split position. A split leap is trying to have both legs at least horizontal with the floor, a tour jete is trying split diagonally with a high back leg.

A real tour jete on beam deserves the D rating, we never get to see them. What Voinea did should be recognized as a regular Split leap 1/2 with C rating. This, and so many other things, need to be coded better.

 

[navyblue]

Split leap 1/2 with C rating.

That feels fair, but I do think it's harder than a switch leap. But on second thought, switch leap could probably stand to be downgraded to a B. It's debatably easier than a regular split jump (B) because that momentum you get really helps with hitting the split position. And then, it's obviously easier than several other C skills like Kaliya Lincoln's gorgeous and floaty 'back pike' on beam (/sarcasm).... I might just make the bolder blanket statement that I wouldn't be mad about a blanket downgrade of most leaps/jumps. (Maybe excepting those requiring rings or oversplit since they're already getting judged so harshly).

But I don't know, I suppose I'm actually pretty happy with the state of beam right now. The field of top beam contenders lately -- Biles and Qiu and Zhou and Urara and Schafer and Wevers and Esposito and even Voinea -- is remarkably diverse, and that seems like a win for the CoP to be able to properly reward gymnasts with unique styles.