2023 World Championship Event Finals Day 2 MAG VT/PB/HB & WAG BB/FX (Sunday 10/08)

[makam]

Where does the line get drawn, though?

I’m with you on not downgrading actual intended elements and deducting from the e-score instead, but connections still need an absolute line in the sand regarding what is and what isn’t a connection. Sure, you could relax the rules and introduce a 0.3 deduction for poor rhythm in a connection, but I’m not sure that will solve the problem of all these nebulous awarding of connections.

They could go back to the old way that if your arms are swinging (in a controlled way, not flailing for balance), you havent broken the connection.

 

[Aeris]

She very clearly lifts her arms upwards after fully landing the side somi to prep for the tuck full. There was a FIG video about this where that sort of motion was given as an example of when not to credit a connection.

She lifts her arms up every other time she does it, and that’s allowed. What’s not allowed is landing with the arms up, swinging them down, and then reversing the direction of the swing. She doesn’t do that.

Where does the line get drawn, though?

I don’t agree with their idea of putting it all on the E-panel, but connection timer would be the most clear-cut rule. We are already expected to assess 2 second pauses. For connections it can be a 1 second requirement. Competitors can say “1 mississipi” in their head (at least during training) and slow motion can be used for inquiries to more precisely time the connection.

The D-panel after determining the connection credit should notify the E-panel. If the connection is not given, there should not be further “slow connection” deduction. If the connection is given, the judge can decided to deduct if they feel it wasn’t performed well enough. This part would require updating the judging system to input routines into a computer program, and let the E-judges rewatch skills, but that should happen anyway.

 

[Denn]

I would not do –0.3. It would be up to the value of the connection.

The D-panel would reward EVERY attempted connection. I’d say 1 second is a good threshold. And I agree with @makam about ignoring arm movements. The E-panel would deal with that. They can deduct up to the connection value earned, so either 0.1 or 0.2.

If there is doubt, the D-panel should say something — they can talk to the E-panel. In fact, on vault, they even hold up the script for the vault they are crediting when the E-panel might have doubts. ETA: they don’t need computers for this. They can talk or show their scripts.

ETA: I see Aeris basically agreed with what I am saying. I wrote this before reading that response… Cool though.

 

[MrSixkiller]

I would not do –0.3. It would be up to the value of the connection.

The D-panel would reward EVERY attempted connection. I’d say 1 second is a good threshold. And I agree with about ignoring arm movements. The E-panel would deal with that. They can deduct up to the connection value earned, so either 0.1 or 0.2.

If there is doubt, the D-panel should say something — they can talk to the E-panel. In fact, on vault, they even hold up the script for the vault they are crediting when the E-panel might have doubts. ETA: they don’t need computers for this. They can talk or show their scripts.

ETA: I see Aeris basically agreed with what I am saying. I wrote this before reading that response… Cool though.

I think I can get behind that, but I might have to see examples. Is is possible to connect within a second while still stopping momentum? Does that still count?

My mind keeps going back to Wieber’s ridiculous BB connections in 2011-2012 and if those would have counted under your proposed rule (even though it wouldn’t count today); It stands out in my mind as an egregious lapse. It still boggles my mind that the WTC apparently thought the commutative property applied to acro series when awarding CV that quad.

 

[Denn]

The benefit of my proposal is that Wieber wouldn’t get anything for it. The E-panel would take care of it, right?

LOL @ your use of “commutative property”. (I’m a mathematician)

 

[blake]

With Sanne, the answer to that is always yes.

I could probably pay at least two if not three/four months rent with the money Sanne has spent on inquiries.

I’d love to figure out her ratio of accepted to attempted inquiries. I wanna know quantitatively which gymnast has submitted the most inquiries and which have been the most/least successful with it.

 

[RAFIKI]

Enquiry statistics would be really interesting but probably very difficult to gather. Are they listed in any post-competition reports?

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I could probably pay at least two if not three/four months rent with the money Sanne has spent on inquiries.

I’d love to figure out her ratio of accepted to attempted inquiries. I wanna know quantitatively which gymnast has submitted the most inquiries and which have been the most/least successful with it.

That sounds like an exceptional geeking opportunity, if we could ever get the data!

 

[MaryClare]

Speaking of enquiries, was any basis of Voinea’s enquiry established? What wasn’t she credited with?

 

[blake]

Enquiry statistics would be really interesting but probably very difficult to gather. Are they listed in any post-competition reports?

The Rio results book lists score modifications before the start lists, but it only seems to be successful enquiries.

I have no idea if these type of detailed results are published for worlds/continentals. They still haven’t released the Tokyo result book, right? I remember Doug leading that cause.

 

[RAFIKI]

They release them for worlds because the Liverpool one came out recently and the artistry deductions were very interesting.

You are correct, the Tokyo book hasn’t come out yet for whatever reason.

 

[RedBirdie]

I don’t think Liverpool was meant to be released publicly. It got pulled down fairly quickly. Some of us saved a copy and have been passing it around.

 

[navyblue]

I don’t think Liverpool was meant to be released publicly. It got pulled down fairly quickly. Some of us saved a copy and have been passing it around.

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