2023 US Classic Session 2 (Senior Women disussion)

[JaJa]

You can’t really use Simone as an example of anything, the norms don’t apply to her

That’s the damned truth. Like Aly Raisman once said: “there’s Simone, and then there’s the rest of us.”

 

[tempest]

and thank jebus for Simone otherwises we would have Aly Raisman as OLYMPIC AA CHAMP…
shudder

 

[MaryClare]

11 I think (1999). But she was never the top junior in her age group and she reached her gymnastics peak in 2005, 5 years after qualifying elite. It’s hard to compare though, since she became a world champion in what would nowadays be her final junior season.

 

[MaryClare]

Countries with less depth tend to have fewer 12 year olds doing elite level difficulty since there’s no rush.

 

[Rich]

Werent we discussing how Sabrina Voinea’s triple double layout she did 3 years before becoming a senior as excessive.

 

[MaryClare]

Sure, there are examples. But it’s very rare. And her mother is clearly an absolute headcase.

But in the top European countries, it doesn’t really happen anymore

 

[irichluck21]

Simone was never an NCAA gymnast but she’s proven that you can keep competing for as long as you want to and not because everyone says you have to stop.

In the US it was rare to have gymnasts in their 20s and beyond because once you turned 18 you went to NCAA and your elite career was done.

Very few did both or came back after.
Garrison, Bhardwaj, Skinner, Dowell, Sacramone, Magee, Philips, Knight-Hunter are some of the very few and not all of them finished their NCAA careers.

Everyone else like the Mag 7, Atler, Patterson, and later pros had to choose between elite and money opportunities or NCAA.

Now with NIL, gymnasts can do both.

So I think we will see a new trend in the US of elites doing NCAA as well as elite.

That’s evident this year alone.

 

[rlayt]

And Marta made them choose too.

 

[Rich]

I think you are right and it has to do with NIL. I am not sure if I buy that we push our girls very young because we have tremendous depth. Some are pushed some are not.

 

[MaryClare]

Why do you think they are pushed? Why do you think 11 year olds were qualifying elite?

 

[RichardL]

Not the same skills at all really, just the double double and double pike. The new double layout is also worth less than the whip to triple full, so her 2021 routine was significantly more difficult.

 

[Aeris]

I totally missed the double layout live yesterday, my attention must have been elsewhere, but you’re right it’s a downgrade from Whip + Triple (and from Pike Arabian + Stag), that makes me even more concerned! The big downgrade on the 3rd pass and lack of any other beneficial alterations was already worrying enough. What boils me the most is the L-turn still being in the routine.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

the whip + triple was dodgy. DLO is worth .1 less but is significantly more reliable. The Dos Santos was often landed deep and I was afraid. Wong didn’t need to do full difficulty at Classics, the 1.5 + 1.0 third line will come. She’s on a far better trajectory now

 

[Aeris]

1.5 + 1.0 won’t really change anything, that’s only a .1 increase to the routine, or a 0 increase if 1.5 doesn’t go completely deduction free…

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

it’s a big gain because it’s another C element, so she can then take out a dance element, for example the double L turn

 

[Aeris]

The double L should already be out anyway. She has 4 other C+ dance. I’m not seeing any reason to believe they would be smart enough to take out two dance skills if she upgrades to a 1.5…and that still doesn’t help much, because her double wolf looks good and the Popa should be able to go clean or only get .1 at most. What she really needs is the 2.5 + front full back, or some other valuable connection pass, to remove the Double Pike.

 

[RAFIKI]

I’ve left Simone out, since she’s next level, but worth noting she was never junior national champion. I think it was Lexie Priessman who beat her.

That must be a fun brag for Priessman to think about.

 

[MaryClare]

Simone was third. Lexie Priessman and Maddie Desch beat her.

Looking back it seems absolutely mad that they had several 15 year olds competing Amanars. But I wonder if it was being a baby of the Amanar rush that made Simone such a good vaulter

 

[RedBirdie]

Reading that 2012 junior results and my immediate reaction is “wow, that’s a lot of mismanaged talent.”

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Simone was on my radar at 2012 Nationals and I remember thinking she would be on major teams as at least a VT/FX specialist, but I thought that if she got her game together she would be the top AA junior. I first saw video of Simone in January of 2012 at the Alamo Classic