2023 US Classic Session 2 (Senior Women disussion)

[lovegymnasts]

Clearer view of her landing. Confirms for me that the judges’ view is obstructed. I couldn’t tell for sure on the international feed.

NBC Olympics & Paralympics on Twitter: “SIMONE BILES WITH THE BEST CELEBRATION! : @CNBC and @Peacock https://t.co/xumNDPrWpt” / X

 

[gymfan]

Simone is a legend! She can still score a 59+ at the age of 26. She confirms that gymnasts of higher age than 16-18 can be very competitive in elite gymnastics.

 

[MaryClare]

She confirms that gymnasts of higher age than 16-18 can be very competitive in elite gymnastics.

WTF no she hasn’t. Plenty of gymnasts before Simone have proven that. You can’t really use Simone as an example of anything, the norms don’t apply to her

 

[Passion]

She confirms that gymnasts of higher age than 16-18 can be very competitive in elite gymnastics.

Andrade just won Worlds last year at 23.
Ferrari just won Olympic silver on floor at 31.
Ellie Black won World silver on beam last year at 27.
Mai Murakami won Olympic bronze on floor at 25.
MyKayla Skinner won Olympic silver on vault at 24.

 

[Denn]

I agree with you, but I don’t think you needed to “WTF” @ gymfan.

Passion made the same point with data and without being so harsh.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

More significant, I think, is that Simone has a chance to become the oldest Olympic AA champion since 1952.

Gymnastics all-around champions by age - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The trend towards gymnasts competing well past their teens is decades old at this point, but having a woman who’s closer to 30 than 20 as the Olympic AA champion would cement it even further.

 

[MaryClare]

Well it’s a lot more polite than actually typing it out.
It was a genuine WTF moment.

 

[makam]

Might have been from a US centric point of view. Growing up, if you weren’t the new 13, 14, 15, 16-year-old on the scene, you were washed up and ready for the retirement farm. Older gymnasts like Anya Hatch were the exception and not the star. Dominique was the star, Carly was the star, Shawn was the star…to have an older gymnast be the star is pretty new, depending on where/when you grew up.

(If you grew up a gymnastics and figure skating fan in the US, it was similar except Michelle Kwan was the old lady still hanging around, keeping the new girls from making a team by daring to still be good in her 20s)

 

[QuietColours]

A question about Simone’s toe-on full–it’s been inconsistent for years. Is it really worth the D in her routine with how often she has a major break on it? She has the giant full now to meet the pirouette requirement. Would another skill make more sense, or counting a lower value skill?

 

[Ginger]

How much CV did Kaliya lose for not connecting her front aerial to the jumps (at 2:15 time mark)? I guess 0.1?

 

[Passion]

Might have been from a US centric point of view. Growing up, if you weren’t the new 13, 14, 15, 16-year-old on the scene, you were washed up and ready for the retirement farm. Older gymnasts like Anya Hatch were the exception and not the star. Dominique was the star, Carly was the star, Shawn was the star…to have an older gymnast be the star is pretty new, depending on where/when you grew up.

Simone herself was over 18 at both the 2016 and 2020 Olympics, and she wasn’t even the oldest gymnast on either of those teams. The 2020 US Olympic team members were ages 24, 18, 20, 18, 24, and 21.

The 2016 US Olympic team ages were 19, 20, 22, 16, and 19. The lone 16 year old was Hernandez. Biles, Douglas, and Raisman were the stars.

 

[Rich]

that is only 2 over 26 who did well. I think 23 24 is still young.

 

[Passion]

that is only 2 over 26 who did well. I think 23 24 is still young.

The initial post from gymfan was that 16-18 is the norm for being competitive.

Gymnastics has been turning towards competitive adults over teenagers for years now. To the point that even the US has only sent one 16 year old to the Olympics in the past decade.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

The thing about Michelle Kwan is that she was only 17 in 1998. I think people forget that because of her programs and how she presented herself. It’s why she had less appeal to me when I was 9, so I rooted for Tara. Tara’s style and music still appeal more to me today.

It’s also interesting that if Nancy Kerrigan hadn’t been healthy enough by the 1994 Olympics, Michelle could have competed as a 13 turning 14-year old. She competed and placed eighth at 1994 Worlds in a matter of fact.

 

[Concorde]

How much CV did Kaliya lose for not connecting her front aerial to the jumps (at 2:15 time mark)? I guess 0.1?

She lost 0.1 in CV for the aerial + split jump connection and 0.1 in SB for the three element series, for a total of 0.2.

 

[makam]

The 2016 US Olympic team ages were 19, 20, 22, 16, and 19. The lone 16 year old was Hernandez. Biles, Douglas, and Raisman were the stars.

Yes, but if you had been a fan since the 90s (or earlier), that was a very unusual team and the start of a different trend. We are only 2 Olympics into this new paradigm and it hasn’t yet proven to be the new norm. The Paris team could still be Simone with a bunch of 16 year olds. And 16-20 was the expected ages for a one-quad-and-done gymnast if they were too young to make the previous cycle and were lucky to remain healthy enough to compete all four years. Lets give a moment to the Ohashis, Brosses, and other gymnasts like them who hit 17/18 and couldn’t do it anymore.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

It is crazy that even 10 years ago gymnasts like Simone, Ohashi, Liukin, etc. were considered deeply unlucky for turning senior the year after the Olympics and there would always be a question of whether they would be able to hold on through an entire quad or not. Nowadays it’s probably the best case scenario to turn senior the year after and have an entire quad to develop.

 

[MaryClare]

Lets give a moment to the Ohashis, Brosses, and other gymnasts like them who hit 17/18 and couldn’t do it anymore.

There always will be gymnasts who peak in their teens.

The gymnasts who have most successfully competed for the US well into their 20s were never super precocious juniors. Bhardwaj, Memmel, Sacramone, Raisman, Skinner, Carey. And of course there’s Douglas who is still training. I’ve left Simone out, since she’s next level, but worth noting she was never junior national champion. I think it was Lexie Priessman who beat her.

 

[Rich]

Maybe in countries without the depth of the US, it is easier to compete at an older age.

 

[RedBirdie]

Carey was never even a junior elite!

Memmel, though…she went elite at something crazy like 10 (good riddance to the old Child Elite designation). She just spent so much of those years injured.