2023 Worlds Postmortem

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I’m particularly fascinated to see what Simone does vault-wise. I suspect her success will give her more confidence to go back in the gym and work on more elaborate twisting, starting with the Amanar.
I don’t see a reason for Simone to work on the Amanar again, it would cut into her training time and muscle memory for the yurchenko takeoff, and it takes a 9.7E Amanar to outscore a YDP fall. That would be the biggest confidence boost of anything to me, knowing I can fall and it won’t make a difference. She just needs to get Laurent off the podium and keep perfecting the Cheng and she’s all set.
 
I don’t see a reason for Simone to work on the Amanar again, it would cut into her training time and muscle memory for the yurchenko takeoff, and it takes a 9.7E Amanar to outscore a YDP fall. That would be the biggest confidence boost of anything to me, knowing I can fall and it won’t make a difference. She just needs to get Laurent off the podium and keep perfecting the Cheng and she’s all set.
Did her Cheng seem Biles-able? She seemed to have a lot of airtime and distance to me (to the point where i was actually thinking she left off twists) and a Biles 1 + Biles 2 vault combo would be baller. Obviously, i don’t want her to ramp the difficulty up to where she is struggling but, well, a girl can dream.
 
Did her Cheng seem Biles-able? She seemed to have a lot of airtime and distance to me (to the point where i was actually thinking she left off twists) and a Biles 1 + Biles 2 vault combo would be baller. Obviously, i don’t want her to ramp the difficulty up to where she is struggling but, well, a girl can dream.
The Cheng isn’t “Bilesable” right now. I’m sure it will be if she works on it. Despite the incredible distance it was technically quite flawed actually. The timing of the twisting was not good and it actually looked like she did not have that many more repetitions in her before she would get lost.

I think getting the YDP landing consistent is possible for Simone (without sacrificing her ankles) and just going by D, it makes sense to forego the Amanar.
Also - using a second mat (also -0.5 ND) would send a much better message and would actually make sense. Laurent standing there is the same as a coach standing next to the beam for a bhs - he is able to do exactly nothing if something goes wrong. I want Laurent to be honest and admit that he would never actually be able to do something if she made a big mistake. It’s just not possible. You either spot a skill or you don’t. See bars - we rarely see a coach manage more than hold out a hand to try and break a fall. And bars skills have inherently a lot less power than a YDP.
 
The Cheng isn’t “Bilesable” right now. I’m sure it will be if she works on it. Despite the incredible distance it was technically quite flawed actually. The timing of the twisting was not good and it actually looked like she did not have that many more repetitions in her before she would get lost.

I think getting the YDP landing consistent is possible for Simone (without sacrificing her ankles) and just going by D, it makes sense to forego the Amanar.
Also - using a second mat (also -0.5 ND) would send a much better message and would actually make sense. Laurent standing there is the same as a coach standing next to the beam for a bhs - he is able to do exactly nothing if something goes wrong. I want Laurent to be honest and admit that he would never actually be able to do something if she made a big mistake. It’s just not possible. You either spot a skill or you don’t. See bars - we rarely see a coach manage more than hold out a hand to try and break a fall. And bars skills have inherently a lot less power than a YDP.
The first Biles vault was a flash in the pan and we won’t see it again, maybe from any other athlete ever if I had to guess. If you look at how she was blocking at that time, it was totally reasonable that she would’ve tried (successfully) to upgrade the Cheng, but her approach to that vault is completely different now and would not reward extra flight time plus a blind landing.
 
Agree about the safety usefulness of the coach standing there being vastly overstated. It would need to be an extremely rare case of an elite gymnast completely stalling at the top of a vault and looking like they might be rotating directly into an upside down landing. Someone who is quick and precise could maybe push the gymnast into a better landing position. That kind of extreme brain/body freeze could happen during any salto skill in gymnastics though. A more absorbent landing area would statistically be more likely to reduce possible injuries.

I don’t think the Biles 1 will come back and I don’t see any point in trying to bring it back. These super difficult twisting vaults are undervalued in the code, it’s so much more risk and she doesn’t need it, the YDP is already beating everything else and serving as a higher scoring single vault for Team/AA final. Andrade would be the person who could possibly gain something from a Biles 1.
 
I do think that if having a coach there can help avoid a very serious accident, or at least is a thing that can be done to avoid one. I would be interested to see the FIG survey athletes doing double salto vaults especially to see what they think.

I will never understand how spotting an about-to-crash YDP isn’t basically trying to catch a meteor. Clearly I am not a coach.

This felt like a super competitive Worlds for one where two athletes took 8 of 15 individual medals, one of the best AAers was out after TFs, another had a nightmare quals, two major VT/FX stars and a UB star were at home with injury or preparedness issues, and Russia was banned.
 
I do think that if having a coach there can help avoid a very serious accident, or at least is a thing that can be done to avoid one. I would be interested to see the FIG survey athletes doing double salto vaults especially to see what they think.

I will never understand how spotting an about-to-crash YDP isn’t basically trying to catch a meteor. Clearly I am not a coach.

This felt like a super competitive Worlds for one where two athletes took 8 of 15 individual medals, one of the best AAers was out after TFs, another had a nightmare quals, two major VT/FX stars and a UB star were at home with injury or preparedness issues, and Russia was banned.
There’s a coach I’ve worked with in Russia who has crossed over to WAG from a tumbling background and he can spot every element of the tumble run, with both hands on the gymnast including both saltos of a double salto. He coaches 11-14 year old girls so their size definitely makes it easier but wow it should be a sport in itself.

It’s definitely a factor in why there are so few female coaches working at a top level in MAG. Ilya Kovtun’s coach is clearly extremely talented, but she sure as hell ain’t catching him from anything.
 
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The reason I remember your post was because after you stated your opinion, you paid me the best compliment anyone on WWGym gave me! You said that you respected me as a knowledgeable gym person and kindly asked my opinion on whether it was one of the best meets ever. I wanted to say thank you for your kind words and that you never know when saying something kind to someone can stick with them for years to come.
AWWW BLUSHING HERE.
It really was one of the best meets of all time, nothing like coming down to the very last routine and needing a 10. It was anyone’s meet to win it was so thrilling.
 
This felt like a super competitive Worlds for one where two athletes took 8 of 15 individual medals
I agree. The Simone-Rebeca competition never felt manufactured–especially after Simone sat her vault down. If she had kept it to her feet, the result would be obvious. Bars was so close, beam felt like there were lots of potential and former gold medalists competing and it could be anyone’s day. Floor also felt like more of a race than usual with Simone’s d score not giving her the same cushion against bad landings that the previous quad did.
 
@Aeris I COMPLETELY agree that the mat for landing vault should be more absorbent. I can’t believe we are still having injury after injury on vault and no change from FIG.

@RichardL I disagree that we won’t ever see the Biles I vault again. I used to think that about the same vault in MAG — just a couple guys did it — Eddie Penev, Paul Ruggeri, maybe Jeffrey Wammes? I can’t remember for sure… But here we see Khoi Young winning a medal with it this week. I suspect it will come back at some point. Honestly, I think Andrade’s Cheng is so good, she could pull it off, but I think most people, trying to upgrade a Cheng (or the men’s version of it, unnamed) just do a Randi off instead. (Li Xiaopeng)

Biles did do it a couple times, though — not just the one time, right?
 
Biles did do it a couple times, though — not just the one time, right?
She did it domestically a few times but there was no one-touch for EF at the time so i think it was the one-and-done, internationally.
 
It’s definitely a factor in why there are so few female coaches working at a top level in MAG. Ilya Kovtun’s coach is clearly extremely talented, but she sure as hell ain’t catching him from anything.
Has there ever been another coach like her — a woman coaching a top male athlete?

I can’t think of one, honestly. It really is super cool, and it bothers me a lot that we don’t see more of it. At the upper levels, the guys just don’t need that kind of spotting anyway usually. Maybe some steadying on Pbars or support while working strength skills on (low) rings, or even a spot on a dismount, but you don’t need to be super strong for that. And I honestly don’t think some of the coaches spotting high bar are going to do much either. They’re there, but what are they doing??

BTW, I always admire coaches who spot well. Your joke that there should be a sport for it, made me wonder how you would judge that. LOL.

I was never a great spotter, but I was okay. I feel like the biggest challenges for me weren’t knowing WHAT to do but more (a) thinking ahead enough so that my hands were in the right place when needed and (b) not being afraid of a gymnast coming at you, and instead moving with them (both mentally and literally). That last thing is probably something the coach you mentioned really internalized well, and hence was able to spot the whole series easily.
 
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Has there ever been another coach like her — a woman coaching a top male athlete?

I can’t think of one, honestly. It really is super cool, and it bothers me a lot that we don’t see more of it. At the upper levels, the guys just don’t need that kind of spotting anyway usually. Maybe some steadying on Pbars or support while working strength skills on (low) rings, or even a spot on a dismount, but you don’t need to be super strong for that. And I honestly don’t think some of the coaches spotting high bar are going to do much either. They’re there, but what are they doing??

BTW, I always admire coaches who spot well. Your joke that there should be a sport for it, made me wonder how you would judge that. LOL.

I was never a great spotter, but I was okay. I feel like the biggest challenges for me weren’t knowing WHAT to do but more (a) thinking ahead enough so that my hands were in the right place when needed and (b) not being afraid of a gymnast coming at you, and instead moving with them (both mentally and literally). That last thing is probably something the coach you mentioned really internalized well, and hence was able to spot the whole series easily.
Olga Bicherova coached her husband, but it was later in his career and he probably needed a motivator rather than a spotter.
 
I disagree that we won’t ever see the Biles I vault again. I used to think that about the same vault in MAG — just a couple guys did it — Eddie Penev, Paul Ruggeri, maybe Jeffrey Wammes? I can’t remember for sure… But here we see Khoi Young winning a medal with it this week. I suspect it will come back at some point. Honestly, I think Andrade’s Cheng is so good, she could pull it off, but I think most people, trying to upgrade a Cheng (or the men’s version of it, unnamed) just do a Randi off instead. (Li Xiaopeng)

Biles did do it a couple times, though — not just the one time, right?
Simone did it on two occasions internationally, but both were at the same championship, 2018 worlds. She stood it up in prelims, did the Cheng in TFs and then sat it down in the AA. It wasn’t really needed, so I think once it was named, the incentive evaporated.
 
There’s a coach I’ve worked with in Russia who has crossed over to WAG from a tumbling background and he can spot every element of the tumble run, with both hands on the gymnast including both saltos of a double salto. He coaches 11-14 year old girls so their size definitely makes it easier but wow it should be a sport in itself.

It’s definitely a factor in why there are so few female coaches working at a top level in MAG. Ilya Kovtun’s coach is clearly extremely talented, but she sure as hell ain’t catching him from anything.
I don’t understand how people can do this past the age of, like, 35, even if they have this special talent and training.
 
I don’t understand how people can do this past the age of, like, 35, even if they have this special talent and training.
My background is RG so it’s all witchcraft to me. None of these guys can get their heads around a switch leap though 😂
 
I’m still digesting the competition by rereading live threads, editing photos and watching coverage. So far it seems like an unusually uncontroversial championships. Is that fair?

In the arena I thought the bars and beam top twos could have gone either way but I haven’t managed to rewatch them properly yet. The Gadirova injury (😭) and several mistakes from challengers meant the AA medals shook out as expected. MAG VT bronze was close but when it’s the same country no one gets too upset. There were lots of lovely podiums at this competition

It feels strange that the gymternet isn’t mad about something!
 
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