Gabby Douglas Comeback Thread (New goal: LA 2028)

[ArnoldRimmer]

That’s true, I have no idea what prompted that skill selection. Faith in her big match temperament or just stupidity probably. But also even if she had miraculously rotated everything it still wasn’t going to be a high scoring routine. It’s not like beam where Aliya genuinely was capable of delivering big numbers when she hit, and did so across the quad.

 

[Doug1233]

You’ve yet to show an example of any other woman rebounding with that much snap and clean form who has done it higher.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I would’ve gone right to clips of Atler, but Thorsdottir works too, Doug.

 

[Yarotska]

Dare I say Ashley Postell’s showed more amplitude from a whip? Ashley Postell - 2001 US Classic - Floor Exercise - YouTube

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Postell was such a talent. That first pass is beautiful.

 

[Doug1233]

I would’ve gone right to clips of Atler

That was also my first thought too, but I pre-empted the cries of “punching out of a DLO is easier” so I thought better of it.

 

[RAFIKI]

Postell was such a talent. That first pass is beautiful.

Agreed. She was one of my favourites that quad (the deepest US quad IMHO) and it’s wild that a world champion is still “what could have been” type gymnast. I do also love a good classic Zorba routine, it’s been a while since we’ve seen one.

 

[irichluck21]

Agreed. She was one of my favourites that quad (the deepest US quad IMHO) and it’s wild that a world champion is still “what could have been” type gymnast. I do also love a good classic Zorba routine, it’s been a while since we’ve seen one.

In an ideal world she would have been there in 2004 and an asset on beam and floor, ultimately where the US lost to Romania.

 

[RichardL]

McCallum did one in 2018 I believe!

 

[GymBeauty]

I would’ve gone right to clips of Atler, but Thorsdottir works too, Doug.

Thorsdottir doesn’t rebound with nearly as much snap as Shang Chunsong. Shang’s salto rotation is completed much faster.

I’ve even timed it now, both videos slowed down for precision. From the moment of takeoff for the front tucks, Shang takes 1.52 seconds to complete the rotation of her salto (rotation is completed when the torso is upright in the air), while Eythora takes 2.18 seconds - 44% longer.

Both are perfectly valid and impressive and deserve no deduction. Speed vs height.

Dare I say Ashley Postell’s showed more amplitude from a whip? Ashley Postell - 2001 US Classic - Floor Exercise - YouTube

That again is a slower rebound than what Shang did, and it’s barely more amplitude; the distance is actually less, taking the salto straight up rather than forward at all. Preceding the Triple with a whip is considered the same difficulty as indirect 1.5 twist, so that’s a wash.

 

[RedBirdie]

McCallum did one in 2018 I believe!

Indeed!

 

[Doug1233]

Thorsdottir doesn’t rebound with nearly as much snap as Shang Chunsong. Shang’s salto rotation is completed much faster.

But no one was talking about “snap” or “rotation speed”. We were talking about an amplitude deduction on her punch front.

From the moment of takeoff for the front tucks, Shang takes 1.52 seconds to complete the rotation of her salto (rotation is completed when the torso is upright in the air), while Eythora takes 2.18 seconds - 44% longer.

Well, yes! Exactly right!

That again is a slower rebound than what Shang did, and it’s barely more amplitude; the distance is actually less, taking the salto straight up rather than forward at all.

I’ve literally never heard of anyone talking about “insufficient distance” on a punch front . This isn’t vault. Length isn’t rewarded on floor…

Is that perhaps why you’re struggling with this?

 

[GymBeauty]

But no one was talking about “snap” or “rotation speed”.

That’s exactly what was being talked about, but you continually ignore what’s being said.

I’ve literally never heard of anyone talking about “insufficient distance” on a punch front

Height and distance are both physical properties of any tumbling skill. Speed as well.

Distance is not required of course, height is fine, but executing a skill to have less height and more trajectory is a viable option. A forward layout before another tumble, for example, is smarter to do long rather than high.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

I’ve literally never heard of anyone talking about “insufficient distance” on a punch front . This isn’t vault. Length isn’t rewarded on floor…

By that measure Shawn Johnson should have gotten 8.8 bonus points on floor in 2008!

 

[Doug1233]

The gaslighting here is off the charts.

We were ONLY talking about an amplitude deduction for Shang’s punch front.

Here:

The amplitude in that connection is fine in any reasonable or historical standard of judging. You’ve yet to show an example of any other woman rebounding with that much snap and clean form who has done it higher.

But when you’ve clearly lost the argument about amplitude (when I sent you the Eythora video) you started talking about “snap”. No one (other than you) was talking about “snap”

 

[Doug1233]

but executing a skill to have less height and more trajectory is a viable option

It’s a viable way to get D Score credit, sure.

But when you perform it like Shang, with your head almost scraping the floor, you get an amplitude deduction.

It’s impossible to have any kind of rational debate with you. I feel like I’m talking to that nonsense blog GymTruthTeller or something.

 

[Doug1233]

That’s exactly what was being talked about, but you continually ignore what’s being said.

Who by?

Who in this thread discussed “snap” and “rotation speed” (other than you)?

 

[GymBeauty]

But when you perform it like Shang, with your head almost scraping the floor, you get an amplitude deduction.

Her head wasn’t almost scraping the floor, you are absurd. Triple posting doesn’t make your repetitive, incorrect statements any more legitimate either.

Who in this thread discussed “snap” and “rotation speed” (other than you)?

I asked the question, explained it in detail, and you’ve again failed to understand what is being said, or come up with any example that disproves the point being made.

Good judging involves taking into account many things at once. Again, in no historical or logical standard of judging would Shang’s punch front be deducted. It’s super fast and clean and sufficient in overall height/distance considering those qualities.

It’s not possible to punch front with that much speed and do it with much more amplitude than Shang did. Someone who has actually done these moves themselves would understand that. What Shang is doing displays top level quality of the acceptable technique being attempted. Deduction should not be given for doing a skill as well as can be expected.

The flawed idea you are trying to put forth would mean any standing aerial cartwheel should get .3 deducted for amplitude, but that’s not how it works. The expectation for amplitude needs to be different depending on the skill and the way that skill is being used. The mechanics and context need to be understood to judge something properly. Not just looking at a few superficial rules on paper and thinking that’s all there is to it.

 

[RAFIKI]

McCallum did one in 2018 I believe!

So she did, thanks. Guess that routine didn’t make much of an impact on me. I need to rewatch Doha.

 

[RichardL]

Deduction should not be given for doing a skill as well as can be expected.

Lol, welcome to 1992. What does this even mean? Deductions are clearly delineated in the COP about amplitude. I’m dying lol… almost all skills get deducted!

Nastia Liukin’s vault in Olympic AA finals was done far better than could have been expected, and yet thankfully she still incurred the necessary deductions. A skill can be performed correctly and with precision and still deserve multiple deductions.