FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal) PART 2

[JaJa]

The silver lining is that robo-judging D Scores (and OOB) will now come in. Let the machine make the call. It has cleared up a lot of the issues in Tennis.

Not at all sure robo-judging is a silver lining

 

[Matilda23]

Maybe they should just move judges back into the field of play. grumble grumble grumble.

Why were they moved in to the stands? Was coaches interrupting them and speaking rudely to the judges?

 

[RAFIKI]

I think it was to improve the look of the field of play for spectators, TV, photographers (not necessarily in that order of priority). Having them raised does help with some judging angles/not looking up at lights as well. It does look better and my amateur photos are much improved without water bottles and judges cluttering the background. However it’s not worth it when it demonstrably hurts the sport. I also dislike how floor choreography is now focused on the judge’s viewpoint rather than in a range of directions.

 

[Puffin]

Wasn't it a Grandi thing that they wanted gymnastics to be more "performance" without judges cluttering up the viewer/audience "experience"? It was also the reason that they banned (now reinstated) warm-ups.

 

[phoenix7]

Wasn't it a Grandi thing that they wanted gymnastics to be more "performance" without judges cluttering up the viewer/audience "experience"? It was also the reason that they banned (now reinstated) warm-ups.

Did that contribute to dark cavernous arenas with spot-lit gymnasts too I wonder?

I like "people-watching" at the mostly older well lit tournaments.

 

[RedBirdie]

Which worlds started this wretched trend? Glasgow? I hate how contrived and theatrical it all is. It's a damn sporting event. Light the freaking arenas. Put the officials where they can actually see the event they're assigned to.

Angrily shakes fist at clouds.

 

[Puffin]

I remember there being a big problem at 2017 worlds when gymnasts complained about the dark arenas and being blinded by the spotlights

 

[Passion]

Which worlds started this wretched trend? Glasgow?

Yep, it was Glasgow.

2014 Worlds the lights were all on and the judges tables were up against the podiums.

2015 the judges were gone and everything was plunged into darkness.

 

[KristyJ]

The silver lining is that robo-judging D Scores (and OOB) will now come in. Let the machine make the call. It has cleared up a lot of the issues in Tennis.

I remain extremely skeptical that removing people from it will make it better. We've been trying to use more AI over the last few years while seating judges increasingly far away and it's not done much good.

 

[JaJa]

I remain extremely skeptical that removing people from it will make it better. We've been trying to use more AI over the last few years while seating judges increasingly far away and it's not done much good.

agree, agree, agree

 

[makam]

I feel like ai judging might work on a single skill thing like vault but can you imagine the fustercluck if the computer glitches during Rebeca Andrade's vault and doesn't record a result? They can't even figure out the difference between the time a verbal inquiry is made and the time a person records that an inquiry was made and they took away a medal based on that stupidity. I'd love for human subjectivity to be limited but fear the chaos while they try to get there.

 

[makam]

How do we know time has run out?

1. The Omega system, which was first used for these Olympic Games, records everything: hours, minutes and seconds.

So, for example, when a sportswoman is given a mark, the hour, minute/minute, second/second are recorded.

When this is displayed on the screen, the same. When a verbal challenge is made, the referee you address it to immediately records it, and the Omega system "remembers" the time you made it.

Then it's simple. It looks at what time your athlete's score was posted, then when you notified the referees that you wanted to submit a written protest, and it comes up with a result.

In the case of the U.S. challenge, one minute and four seconds. Enough for CAS to say that the action was not in accordance with the rules and decide to annul it.

So from the first post in this thread, the Romanian case hinges on the fact that the person hearing the verbal request "immediately records" that you put in a request. From the video from Simone's documentary, it appears that no one as "immediately" doing anything. Simone's challenge was never actually recorded and Cecile had to call out twice for Jordan's. And then, eventually, the person in charge of logging the request logged it. At 1 minute and 4 seconds. But clearly the request(s) came in before that time. I'm assuming FIG and/or the IOC also had video footage that showed this sequence of events as they were broadcasting the event and had cameras everywhere. So, did they not bother to look or did they ignore the data?

With this information that Cecile was within the rules with her verbal request at <1m, do we think Jordan is going to get her medal back (officially)? Are they going to take Ana's away since they wrongly overthrew Jordan's results?

 

[Matilda23]

Was the correct process followed with the enquiry’s review of Jordan’s D score? Jordan’s higher score came very quickly after the enquiry was received. Even though the Gogean doesn’t look complete.

 

[makam]

Was the correct process followed with the enquiry’s review of Jordan’s D score? Jordan’s higher score came very quickly after the enquiry was received. Even though the Gogean doesn’t look complete.

I think everyone here agrees that the judges granting the challenge was a gift to Jordan. They also clearly didn't do a whole rescore like Kara got at worlds that one year because the answer came so quickly. But so far, judges errors have not been allowed to be heard (Sabrina's erroneous ND) and the case so far has been about procedure/rules.

The initial belief was that Team USA was late in their challenge thus the challenge was void and Ana wins the medal. I don't think they even allowed Sabrina's ND issue to be heard. Since there is evidence that Team USA wasn't late with the verbal part of the challenge (as was required of them) but it was the official who was slow/late in recording the challenge, the ruling on procedural grounds made during the Os was wrong unless the time a judge records is the final-never-to-be-questioned number. (did I get my lawyer terms right? It has been a long time since I watched a lawyer show) And if that is the case, then all the judges have to do is feign deafness (as they apparently did for Simone's challenge?) and they'll never have to entertain a rescore again!