D and E Panel Analysis - WAG EF

[Doug1233]

I had no on the quad. No on the jump out of the triple. No on the Mustafina.

Not sure what the turn at 1;04 even is. I don’t think the free leg is in fwd attitude? And it can’t be a bad Memmel because that would be a repeat anyway.

She lost a bunch of tenths on “almost there” elements.

 

[irichluck21]

This must have been a fun one for the D Panel. Quite a few important calls to make in this one.

For the non-judges amongst you: what’s your take on Artistry here?

It is insane how much power she gets off just a round off.
1/2 in 1/2 out, triple, 2 1/2 punch front, double tuck. CRAZY difficulty from Sri Lanka.
I loved the attempted save on the 2 1/2 punch front.
Artistry was .3 off for me. Some attempt to stick with the music. She might benefit from softer music, though I do like the music itself. Keeping up with the tempo is difficult if you aren’t a natural dancer.

 

[onodian]

I don’t know what the deductions on artistry are atm, I’d say she definitely gets one to three for not really commiting to execution, i don’t know if that would be not playing a character or whatever. I’d say another tenth or three for the construction but i find it on paper better than jade’s, for example. She just doesn’t particularly seem comfortable with it

 

[Doug1233]

Artistry was .3 off for me

I was on the fence between a 5 and a 6.

 

[irichluck21]

I was on the fence between a 5 and a 6.

You are always harsh.

I liked her presentation much better than Carey or Skinner.

But I LOVED her roundoff triple full!!!

 

[Doug1233]

Yes she had a great triple.

I thought her artistry was much below Carey. What did she even do?

 

[makam]

I think she was doing okay until the end where she lost it a bit. She waved her arms and moved her body and it was less pose, pose, pose than Jade’s. Was it an artistic masterpiece, no, but it seemed to do more than the bare minimum like she was just passing time until the next skill.

 

[Denn]

I finally am doing my own scoring. Somehow, my scores put Gadirova ahead of Murakami on a tiebreak even though I had Murakami as the clear winner. It’s the whole shift in which score was thrown out. Otherwise, my scores didn’t change our rankings, which disagreed with the FIG panel.



I felt that both Gymnaverse and FIG were too tough on Murakami, Jessica Gadirova, and Andrade. I do think that people have become exceedingly harsh on some leap positions. They think it’s short * of split, but if you look carefully, it’s not that bad or even perfect.

• Listunova 7.3 (0.1)
• Carey 8.0 (0.5)
• Gadirova (Jessica) 8.7 (0.1)
• Melnikova 8.1 (0.1)
• Ferrari 8.4 (0.0)
• Murakami 8.8 (0.1)
• Andrade 8.8 (0.0)
• Gadirova (Jennifer) 8.1 (0.1)

The fact that both Gymnaverse and the FIG panel had Jennifer Gadirova ahead of Jade Carey in E-scores is heartening though.

 

[Doug1233]

It’s interesting to see what would have happened if Podium Training had been used instead of Prelims. Using our scores from Gymnaverse Panel:

AA Simone (1st) and Grace (6th)
The other 4 would have been 2perd out; Suni (9th), Jordan (10th), Jade (11th), Skinner (12th) … literally

:vt: Simone (1st) and Jade (2nd), with Skinner (4th) coming in as replacement.
:ub: Suni (1st), Simone (7th - after all the Russian’s 2perd out) with no replacement
with Chiles (16th), Grace (24th), Jade (29th), Skinner (38th)
Simone (2nd behind GCC) and Grace (3rd!)
with Skinner (15th), Chiles (19th), Suni (20th), Jade (31st)
:fx: Simone (1st) and Jade (2nd), with Grace (9th) coming in as replacement and 1st Reserve
with Chiles (12th), Skinner (21st), Suni (24th)

So, in short, Suni is hella glad that Prelims wasn’t Podium. And Grace would have loved for Podium to be Prelims. She would have made AA, BB and FX finals. Replicating those scores in finals, she would have come 5th AA (between Mai and Urazova), 3rd on BB (between TXJ and Simone) and 7th FX (between Jess and Jen Gadirova).

 

[irichluck21]

The argument that Grace would never make event finals was always one that I contested.

She was a victim of being on a strong team and getting 2 per’d. It is crazy that she has been to two Worlds and an Olympics and never competed in anything other than team finals.

Had she gotten into one she very likely could have medaled. I had been saying before Tokyo that Grace could win a medal on beam and with Eaker out she had a chance but Suni got great at beam and then Grace left out a composition requirement and took all those extra execution deductions with it.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

But Grace being on a strong team and liable to be 2 per’d out is the exact reason why she was always so unlikely to make EFs. She’s generally been reliant on a better teammate making a mistake to give her an opportunity, which hasn’t ended up happening for her. This has been the basis for most of the points you’ve argued against, and it can’t be dismissed because it’s the whole point. What you’re arguing here is that she would’ve done better individually if the two per country rule didn’t exist and/or if she hadn’t been on a team with Simone and Suni, which is not the same thing

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Suni’s always been very good on beam though. Throwback to when she did a FF + bhs + layout and her free cartwheel + loso X2. She has had a lot of misses on beam but few haven’t.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

She has. It gets forgotten about because of what an inconsistent mess her beam was at 2019 worlds, but having got 13.4 in prelims with a fall is huge. It’s always been the case that Grace would struggle to get past Suni having one of her good days on the event.

 

[RichardL]

Suni on beam was a huge missed opportunity in both 2019 and in Tokyo. The judges love her on that event. The fact that she placed so high in EF with that massive mistake is very telling, and a hit routine from her in 2019 would have gotten her the silver.

 

[Doug1233]

So, what a fucking dumpster fire the judging is at Worlds.

Worlds 2021:



E Score 7.666

Tokyo Olympics 2021



E Score 7.666

 

[Hatsumomo]

Jesus, those ankle-cruncher landings.

 

[ruby]

These two routines really were judged with very different pens. Frazier’s dance elements are arguably a few tenths better than Chiles’ but that should not make up for the horrible landings and the double puck. I can’t judge the artistry because I watched on mute but the choreography looks equally boring.

We should not forget that the quality of the panel is definitely worse than in Tokyo, which will, inspite of the preparation the judges received at Worlds, result in different scoring.

 

[Livi]

Makes me sad. I was so happy with the judging in Tokyo, which gave much more fair results. And now we seem to be back where we were…

 

[Doug1233]

100% agree.

 

[Doug1233]

I just did a bit of geeking on the Gymnaverse Olympic spreadsheet for the 32 EF routines, and if you use the FIG released E Score as the “Expert” score, all of the Gymnaverse Panel judges would have been given an “Excellent” on the E portion of the exam. Which would have made all of us eligible to be R Panel judges at the Olympics… (don’t worry, I’m only half joking!). Of particular note are MRR and psi who both scored a 100% on beam, and yours truly with a 100% on FX/VT. Only one of us dipped below 90% on any one apparatus (psi on bars - and to be frank, we all pretty much agreed that FIG was too high for Suni and Seitz on bars anyway).

For most vaults, you can be 0.2 either side of the “Expert Score” to still get a 100%. For most hit bars/beam/floors (i.e. where the E Score is between a 7.6 and an 8.4), the tolerance grows to 0.3.

That means that, for a routine that gets an 8.0 E - you can give anywhere between a 7.7 and an 8.3 and still score 100% on that portion.

If the “Expert Score” drops to a 7.5 E, your tolerance is 0.4. Imagine being able to give a routine anything from a 7.1 to a 7.9 and still get 100%.

I’m surprised the tolerances are so wide. You’d really have to miss something spectacular, over and over again, to dip below a “Good” (which requires an average score of 80%).

I guess it is a bit easier to judge the top top routines, from home, without having to script - as opposed to the pressures of the FIG Intercontinental course. I hear that often the video quality is poor, the video skips without pausing, etc. And I’m sure they throw some curveballs in terms of routine quality etc. But the tolerances are actually really wide.

I am sure most of us armchair judges on the Forum could pass this exam if we weren’t required to script at the same time. To me, scripting is a pretty unnecessary hurdle to place on an E judge at the Olympic level. There are entirely separate personnel doing the D Score, with their own video review processes.