D and E Panel Analysis - WAG EF

[Doug1233]

It would be interesting to see the individual judges scores to see if there was a way to break the tie between Melnikova and Murakami on floor.

Gymnaverse had Murakami just ahead by half a tenth (and that’s even if we give Melnikova the double turn out of the Double L).

ETA: Actually, 3 out of the 4 gymnaverse judges had them tied, too. Only @MRR had them apart (with Murakami ahead).

Isn’t it crazy that deciding that the panel deciding that the double turn was complete literally decided an Olympic medal.

 

[Doug1233]

In the Code Section 13 page 4 it says:

Musicality
• Lack of synchronization between movement and musical beat during a part of the exercise = -0.3P

Do we have any examples of this? I would argue that Raisman’s “arms in the air” was guilty of this, but obviously they never took it.

Any other examples?

 

[onodian]

This is just stupid. Cause it’s VERY petty and also, you can always kind of say “but that’s how I wanted to do it” and you can’t really say otherwise unless you were judging a compulsory exercise in which you could say, this was not the way it’s supposed to be. I can think of a number of exercises incurring this, I posted Boginskaya a while back. Now I’m too feverish but hit me back and we can review the likes of Patterson and Kupets in the US and some of the more robotic Romanians, we’re bound to find a lot there. Although I must say the Romanians are quite clever at hiding this. Also, lots of Russian gals looking lovely while absolutely not hearing shit I’m sure.

The point is, this should be a general 0.1-0.5 deduction applied to the exercise as a whole. Cause even if they started taking it, then choreographers would just move to general movements and posey-ish moments that they can’t pen you down on.

 

[Doug1233]

I’m actually fine for every single artistry, music, pause, adjustment, corner deduction etc etc (i.e. everything thats not classic execution) being completely removed from the E Panel function. They have enough to worry about. Put it into an A Panel on a completely wholistic scale of 0.0 to 1.0 (additive), and separately publish it next to the E and D score. Not 1 tenth for each thing. Artistry can never be a tick box exercise. Have a range of different things that should be evaluated, and let the artistry expert give their opinion. Artistry is naturally subjective. Let it be so.

Have a stand alone artistry judging exam to be qualified to do A Panel. Have 2 A Panel judges - with the average taken. The Apparatus Supervisor also inputs an A Score but it is only used if the 2 A Panel judges are more than 0.3 apart (for example, one gives a 4 and one gives a 8). In that case, take the median score of all 3 (for example, if it is 4, 8 and AS6 - then use a 0.6; if its 2, 8 and AS2 - then use a 0.2).

The AS would hardly ever be used - only where there is a deep outlier or a vast range - in which case the AS score is either used to “side” with the consensus, or is used as the “compromise” where the whole panel fails to agree.

I truly think this would raise the quality immensely. And lets be fair - the artistry quality of floor (in particular) has substantially increased over the last 10 years. You only need to re-watch 2009 EF FX to see that.

 

[Doug1233]

Look at Jennifer here - see 49:25 of this video.

Should this be credited with Full In Pike or a Chuso?

Skating on thin ice.

The guidelines for when “stretch position becomes pike” (i.e. where there is a pike in the hips) only appears to apply for "single & double saltos without LA turn.

Otherwise, the rule is simply that "the majority of the salto must be maintained in a stretched position.

So, for a Chuso, it seems the rule is that as long as the whole of the first salto is performed with no pike in the hips, it gets Chuso credit (I can’t imagine a scenario in WAG FX where part of the first salto is piked and it ends up being laid out - this isn’t T&T!)

Further, the exception “A slight hollow in the chest or a slight arched body position is acceptable”, again, only applies to saltos without LA turn (and so a Chuso wouldn’t enjoy this exemption).

If you look at Jen, IMO there is a pike in the hips before the start of the second salto. She does not perform a majority of the skill in true layout. So I think, according to the rules, this shouldn’t have gotten credit. But it did in TF (it didn’t in EF when the error was much more obvious).

What would you have done?

Also - she got an 0.1 OOB. At first, I couldn’t find it, but I think her heel was out before the Chuso. I didn’t catch it on the broadcast. Silly mistake. Thankfully it didn’t matter. GBR still beat Italy by 4 tenths. But to lose a tenth for that is frightening!

On a side note, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the cheeky side eye at 50:00.

FINAL side note. The E Panel absolutely fucking loved this routine. 8.4 E. Only Listunova (8.466) and Derwael (8.566) beat it on execution in TF. I actually had it at an 8.2 - with an 8.6 for Jess (she only got an 8.233, which I thought was a bit low).

 

[RAFIKI]

Also - she got an 0.1 OOB. At first, I couldn’t find it, but I think her heel was out before the Chuso. I didn’t catch it on the broadcast. Silly mistake. Thankfully it didn’t matter. GBR still beat Italy by 4 tenths. But to lose a tenth for that is frightening!

I noticed this and was looking out for it during the FX final. Thank goodness it didn’t change the final standings. This was the floor routine I was most looking forward to because we hadn’t seen her on floor since 2020 American cup (I still want to type SCAM!). It did not disappoint.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Technically a Chuso is a full-out. Jen’s twist is basically all in the first flip and she pikes throughout the second flip, as you say, so I concur that this should be downgraded I suppose.

 

[Doug1233]

Chuso / full in DLO … it’s all semantics I guess.

The requirement is for more than half of the skill to be laid out with no piking in the hips. I wonder how the FIG would evaluate a dished DLO full with no “pike down”.

ETA: for example - MDJDS dismount on bars. At 33:35 in the video I posted. That’s dished all the way around. Per the Code, that should be credited as a full in pike.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

She should’ve been downgraded in TFs but I can just about see how she ended up with the benefit of the doubt. Skating on thin ice indeed though! And I hadn’t realised about the OOB either.

 

[Doug1233]

And I hadn’t realised about the OOB either.

Can you imagine if we had come 4th by less than a tenth?!

 

[onodian]

Can you imagine if we had come 4th by less than a tenth?!

it would have single-handedly fueled months of routine scoring breakup of every routine in 3rd and 4th place by you. That’s what I imagine.

 

[Doug1233]

Ha likely!

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

It would’ve taken you at least a decade to get over it.

 

[Doug1233]

At 3:20.

Never felt comfortable watching her do this pass.

Even in prelims, at 1:05, she did so well to pull it out.



At 1:12 - that bent knee on the switch side half. That’s easily 0.3 on its own, right?

ETA:

 

[Doug1233]

Perhaps the most underscored routine of the games?



Gymnaverse - 8.9, 8.9, 9.0.

FIG - 8.366.

I really can’t see how you can get below an 8.6 for that. Given that Melnikova got an 8.266…!

 

[RedBirdie]

She’s just divine to watch. The toepoint!

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Yikes at the switch half!

 

[GLeigh]

I know this is getting old now, but aren’t tie breakers in vault done by highest individual vault score? That would put Yeo into Silver and Moreno into Bronze.

 

[Doug1233]

Oh my bad! I assumed it was average execution, but you’re probably right!

 

[Doug1233]

This must have been a fun one for the D Panel. Quite a few important calls to make in this one.

For the non-judges amongst you: what’s your take on Artistry here?