2024 Paris Qualification Procedures

[Doug1233]

 

[Denn]

It’s much better than last round.

I wish the following were part of it:

• Teams 1-3 or perhaps 1-6 qualify a specialist automatically — their choice of who it is.
• 14 AAers from Worlds is a lot. I’d rather it eight, like for the men, and use the continental championships for some more

 

[RAFIKI]

It’s interesting that the first three teams are qualifying by team final format in 2022 and the rest by qualification format in 2023. Last quad it was qualification standings for both years. Desire to add more unpredictability?

 

[Bob]

I can live without the specialist thing with the teams back to 5. I quite like that the specialism route gives some other countries a chance in.

 

[irichluck21]

It’s interesting that the first three teams are qualifying by team final format in 2022 and the rest by qualification format in 2023. Last quad it was qualification standings for both years.

2018 top 3 were team medalists, not qualification rank.

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[irichluck21]

In 2018, it seemed no one wanted bronze and team qualification to Tokyo.
China was horrible all meet and lucked into 3rd.
They had 5 falls and used a yurchenko full on vault. Their team finals score would have been 6th in prelims.

Canada had mucked up bars in the 1st rotation and eliminated themselves.
France took themselves out with a fall on beam in rotation one followed by a low 11 in rotation 2.
Japan didn’t have the difficulty to contend.
Brazil was in 3rd going into rotation 4 and fell apart on bars with all 3 gymnasts falling, finishing 7th.

 

[RAFIKI]

2018 top 3 were team medalists, not qualification rank.

My mistake, I take it back. Thanks for the correction. I still think it’s odd to qualify the teams via two different formats. Several teams are relatively much weaker counting a 4th score.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I will die on the hill that Brazil could and should have qualified in 2018.

 

[irichluck21]

Several teams are relatively much weaker counting a 4th score.

I am confused.
No one counts a 4th score.
Team Finals is 5-3-3
Qualifications is 5-4-3

It is far harder to qualify in team finals then in qualifications due to being able to drop a score.

 

[blake]

A hit bar rotation would have clinched it for them iirc, no? In the end, they managed to qualify their two stars as individuals and took home two medals which probably softened the blow of missing out on team qualification in retrospect.

Weird to think the only Chinese squad to nab a team medal that quad was the weakest of all 3.

 

[irichluck21]

A hit bar rotation would have clinched it for them iirc, no? In the end, they managed to qualify their two stars as individuals and took home two medals which probably softened the blow of missing out on team qualification in retrospect.

Weird to think the only Chinese squad to nab a team medal that quad was the weakest of all 3.

They went 37.665 in team finals with all 3 athletes falling. Andrade got a 12.966. Barbosa 12.233. Saraiva 12.466.
In qualifications they went 40.832. Counted Andrade 14.333, Barbosa 13.333, Olivera 13.166. Saraiva also fell in TQ and got 12.400, which was dropped.

The difference between TQ and TF was 3.167. They finished behind China at 2.566. Had they repeated TQ performance they would have been in 3rd by .601

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Yes and yes!

I also don’t completely rule out the possibility that they could’ve contended for bronze in Tokyo, had the full team been there. I don’t really know how that would’ve looked, given the pandemic etc, but the talent was there and China provided the opportunity.

 

[RAFIKI]

I think we have established that I shouldn’t post during breaks from grant writing

 

[irichluck21]

 

[blake]

Using Andrade’s median VT/FX and average UB/BB from Tokyo, Brazil would’ve needed a 13.330 average from the remaining 8 routines. Saraiva, Barbosa, and someone w/ a serviceable VT/UB could probably have given them enough to clinch bronze on the day. Though Saraiva averaged 13.55 on BB, she only went 12.066 on FX in prelims. Plus who knows if Barbosa would’ve got the e-panel austerity special.

Pisspoor management on Liukin’s behalf for a team as talented as Brazil’s to lose to Spain in Stuttgart.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Nice! When I started thinking about it yesterday, I got as far as the 13.330 part and then gave up.

 

[irichluck21]

Pisspoor management on Liukin’s behalf for a team as talented as Brazil’s to lose to Spain in Stuttgart.

Disagree 100%.

Brazil has always been known for athletes getting injured, which cannot be blamed on Liukin.
Andrade has been injured how many times? She was missing from Stuttgart due to injury. This is the fault of her personal coach, not Liukin, for not pacing her properly.

Barbosa’s injury in TQ was unexpected and was costly to the team as she was set to compete the AA in team finals. They had taken Olivera as a bars specialist and she at the time had no other events that she was training, which was odd as she had competed AA earlier in the year. I believe she had not intended on competing at Worlds and was asked to come back by Liukin.

Costa fell apart and fell off bars (which she was not slated to do) and beam, with beam having to count. Fidelis was the biggest mistake of the night though. She fell on floor and went OOB by .3 which is arguably the routine that cost them team qualification.
Not to mention they had to go 3 up 3 count on floor and beam, due to Barbosa injury.

The failure to qualify a team was not Liukin’s fault but a series of unfortunate events, the starting of the domino effect was Barbosa’s injury on VT right off the bat.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Andrade’s injury wasn’t Liukin’s fault, no. But it’s entirely his fault that, in a situation where the country’s leading gymnast was already on two ACL injuries, he didn’t think oh actually we might need a bit of cover here. It’s his fault that despite this, he told Hypolito there was no role for her any more in 2018, after she’d posted strong scores in domestic competition.

 

[irichluck21]

Hypolito there was no role for her any more in 2018, after she’d posted strong scores in domestic competition.

There really wasn’t room for Hypolito, since it was going to be 4-4-3 in Tokyo and had encouraged her to go the specialist route. She easily could have gone the World Cup circuit on balance beam and maybe even qualified as an individual.
Hypolito had given up VT and UB completely after 2018 and was just training beam and floor, with no intent to train the other two events. With 4-4-3 you can’t have someone not doing two events.
Brazil’s weakest event was bars and that is where they needed someone. Beside the fact that Hypolito’s floor was not even top 3 or top 4 on the team, so she was really just a beam specialist.

Andrade’s personal coach is at fault for her injuries…three ACL injuries in her time. Andrade was Amanaring in June and doing full difficulty on floor when it was unnecessary given the time frame.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The point is that Valeri’s narrow focus meant they were going to be fucked in the not at all unlikely event of a couple of injuries. That’s what happens when you don’t cultivate anything beyond that tiny core.

Nobody is saying Andrade’s injuries are his fault, the opposite, but the fact remains that he took the job while she already had dodgy ACLs and a coach that was evidently making poor choices, therefore it simply couldn’t be assumed that they wouldn’t require a Plan B. You also can’t prioritise 4-3-3 focus until you’ve actually qualified for the Games, so the argument about someone not fitting into that format doesn’t come into play in 2018 and 2019. Although even if it did, that raises the question of why no attempt was made to send Hypolito on the individual qualification route.