2024 Chinese National Championships + Trials

[Passion]

I don't have context other than the twitter clips above, but to me that DTY wasn't 5 tenths better executed than the rudi. That 8.333 E-score seems questionable...

 

[Aeris]

If you’re bringing someone just to vault, Du Siyu’s DTY gets bigger air.

It's not just to vault, Qingying beat Yushan both days at Nationals on beam and has the higher personal best. All 3 of the vaulters should be on the team, they all have another event where they beat Yushan and they compliment each other perfectly:

VT: Qingying, Yihan, Siyu
UB: Siyu, Yihan, Qiyuan
BB: Qingying, Qiyuan, Yaqin
FX: Yihan, Qiyuan, Yaqin

Ou Yushan doesn't improve that lineup anywhere. It's weird to say Qingying's floor is "unusable" when it's only scoring a few tenths lower. Yushan mainly just provides better backup on UB, but that's the least likely place for someone to be unable to compete, and plugging in her 13.7 UB instead of Yaqin's 13.2 doesn't even help when it means losing .6 on vault.

 

[IratePanda]

Why do you insist on referring to the gymnasts by their first names?

 

[MaryClare]

Why do you insist on referring to the gymnasts by their first names?

I know nothing about the Chinese language but I find that so annoying and confusing!

 

[Passion]

It's not just to vault, Qingying beat Yushan both days at Nationals on beam and has the higher personal best. All 3 of the vaulters should be on the team, they all have another event where they beat Yushan and they compliment each other perfectly:

VT: Qingying, Yihan, Siyu
UB: Siyu, Yihan, Qiyuan
BB: Qingying, Qiyuan, Yaqin
FX: Yihan, Qiyuan, Yaqin

Ou Yushan doesn't improve that lineup anywhere. It's weird to say Qingying's floor is "unusable" when it's only scoring a few tenths lower. Yushan mainly just provides better backup on UB, but that's the least likely place for someone to be unable to compete, and plugging in her 13.7 UB instead of Yaqin's 13.2 doesn't even help when it means losing .6 on vault.

Unfortunately this UB lineup loses 1-2 full points when the first two fall off.

It's not worth the gamble to me. China isn't getting gold unless Team USA implodes. They could be solidly positioned for silver/bronze by just being consistent. The extra tenths on vault here are erased by the inevitable falls on UB.

2024 Zhang Qingying to me is the equivalent of 2021 Ou Yushan and 2016 Mao Yi. Rolling the dice on someone who is injured being able to hold it together long enough to try to get the highest possible score. It just keeps backfiring.

Luo Huan is as close to a sure hit as we're going to get on UB. I'd trust just about ANYONE else to do UB before I'd send Du Siyu up there. She's been struggling to hit that routine since she came back.

I'd also really like a built in backup for Zhou Yaqin. Just in case..

 

[IratePanda]

Unfortunately this UB lineup loses 1-2 full points when the first two fall off.

It's not worth the gamble to me. China isn't getting gold unless Team USA implodes. They could be solidly positioned for silver/bronze by just being consistent. The extra tenths on vault here are erased by the inevitable falls on UB.

2024 Zhang Qingying to me is the equivalent of 2021 Ou Yushan and 2016 Mao Yi. Rolling the dice on someone who is injured being able to hold it together long enough to try to get the highest possible score. It just keeps backfiring.

Luo Huan is as close to a sure hit as we're going to get on UB. I'd trust just about ANYONE else to do UB before I'd send Du Siyu up there. She's been struggling to hit that routine since she came back.

I'd also really like a built in backup for Zhou Yaqin. Just in case..

I agree on all counts. Du Siyu was quite impressive last year, but it's hard to take her seriously right now. Zhang Qingying simply doesn't look ready for the Olympics right now. Her UB today was downright scary, and her V was very crunched.

 

[Aeris]

Ou Yushan still seems affected by lingering injury too. It's been a constant problem with her, she messed up floor at Worlds two years in a row and then again at Nationals and now is only showing a 13.2 at these trials - something isn't working there.

I don't think the UB lineup is a risk at all, Zhang Yihan can go back to the regular tkatchev for team final and have a stable 6.4D routine, Di Siyu can go back to what was consistent for her last year or even just do a super safe routine of L-grip giant + L-grip 1/2 after her full pirouette, instead of trying more difficult pirouettes. A routine like that won't score any worse than what Ou Yushan can do.

 

[irichluck21]

Until we go back to abbreviations for gymnasts, I can't understand ANYTHING.

 

[IratePanda]

Ou Yushan still seems affected by lingering injury too. It's been a constant problem with her, she messed up floor at Worlds two years in a row and then again at Nationals and now is only showing a 13.2 at these trials - something isn't working there.

I don't think the UB lineup is a risk at all, Zhang Yihan can go back to the regular tkatchev for team final and have a stable 6.4D routine, Di Siyu can go back to what was consistent for her last year or even just do a super safe routine of L-grip giant + L-grip 1/2 after her full pirouette, instead of trying more difficult pirouettes. A routine like that won't score any worse than what Ou Yushan can do.

It makes absolutely no sense to build a team on hypothetical routines.

 

[IratePanda]

Until we go back to abbreviations for gymnasts, I can't understand ANYTHING.

Are you granting permission to use abbreviations for Chinese gymnasts' names? Most Sinophones (well, this one at least) have stopped doing that because the blowback has been so ferocious. But in truth, the abbreviations are widely used on Chinese sites because it's so difficult to type out the full names in pictographs (aka Chinese characters), especially on mobile devices.

 

[Aeris]

It makes absolutely no sense to build a team on hypothetical routines.

It's not hypothetical. Zhang Yihan scored 14.5 internationally with her 6.4D routine and looks consistent with that easier set. Similarly, anyone who can do a Healy+Ono can do a regular L-grip giant, there's no reason Du Siyu can't do a safer routine for the team. These are exactly the things a smart team coordinator should be thinking about when looking at what they can do with their crop of athletes and what the best team will be.

 

[IratePanda]

It's not hypothetical. Zhang Yihan scored 14.5 internationally with her 6.4D routine and looks consistent with that easier set. Similarly, anyone who can do a Healy+Ono can do a regular L-grip giant, there's no reason Du Siyu can't do a safer routine for the team. These are exactly the things a smart team coordinator should be thinking about when looking at what they can do with their crop of athletes and what the best team will be.

Well, then, you get yourself to Beijing and explain this. In putonghua.

 

[irichluck21]

Are you granting permission to use abbreviations for Chinese gymnasts' names? Most Sinophones (well, this one at least) have stopped doing that because the blowback has been so ferocious. But in truth, the abbreviations are widely used on Chinese sites because it's so difficult to type out the full names in pictographs (aka Chinese characters), especially on mobile devices.

Thank you for bringing this up.

I didn't realize it was considered offensive and that there was blowback.

I don't go to Facebook or Twitter too often, but when I do I see the abbreviations still being used.

This is good knowledge moving forward.

 

[MaryClare]

I think that a lot of how we talk about the gymnasts is centred around English naming conventions and social norms. For instance, there is not just the tendency to use abbreviations for Chinese names, there is also putting the names in the wrong order for Japanese names, and personally I majorly cringe when I see Melnikova referred to as “Gelya”.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I never know what to do. Heard about 10 years ago that it was more correct to use the full name for a Chinese gymnast, so Cheng Fei rather than Cheng or Fei. Then someone on reddit told me that wasn't necessary. So, stumped. Saying that, I don't even have a set way of referring to western ones either.

 

[MaryClare]

I never know what to do. Heard about 10 years ago that it was more correct to use the full name for a Chinese gymnast, so Cheng Fei rather than Cheng or Fei. Then someone on reddit told me that wasn't necessary. So, stumped. Saying that, I don't even have a set way of referring to western ones either.

I realised something the other day. If I’m talking about Cheng Fei, I’ll attempt to pronounce her name correctly. But if I’m talking about her vault, I always say “ch-eh-ng” and not “ch-uh-ng”. But then I also do the same when I’m speaking English for things like Tkatchev and Yurchenko and I say them nothing like how they are supposed to be said

 

[Passion]

I can tell you on Tieba they refer to gymnasts by half of their first name, whole first name, last name, different variations of nicknames, emojis, abbreviations, very literally anything that gets the point across of who you’re talking about.

Yu Linmin is a fish, Fan Yilin was the number 10, Du Siyu is da Lao Shi (big teacher), Zhang Qingying is big Zhang and Zhang Yihan is mini Zhang or just mini. Zhou Yaqin is just called qin (or a piano emoji) then Qiu Qiuyuan is just called Qiu. Shang Chunsong was song, songsong, or just a tree emoji. It’s whatever is most convenient to type fast.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I can tell you on Tieba they refer to gymnasts by half of their first name, whole first name, last name, different variations of nicknames, emojis, acronyms, very literally anything that gets the point across of who you’re talking about.

Yu Linmin is a fish, Fan Yilin was the number 10, Du Siyu is da Lao Shi (big teacher), Zhang Qingying is big Zhang and Zhang Yihan is mini Zhang or just mini. Zhou Yaqin is just called qin (or a piano emoji) then Qiu Qiuyuan is just called Qiu. Shang Chunsong was song, songsong, or just a tree emoji. It’s whatever is most convenient to type fast.

The principle there sounds familiar!

 

[Passion]

A prominent Chinese gymnastics blogger on Weibo (the person who live streamed the test) was answering a question about Zhou Yaqin, she just called her 琴姐 or Qin Sister/Sister Qin.

Another blogger who writes out more newspaper-like reports of gymnastics news, she always types out the characters for everyone's full names.

I personally always type out the full names because my goal in posting/blogging about Chinese gym online is to get people who don't closely follow Team China to learn who the gymnasts are and be able to recognize them in competitions. That way everyone is already familiar with them when they appear on World or Olympic teams. I use the abbreviations if the person I am talking to is already using abbreviations.

My only pet peeve with the names is sometimes people (USAG FB, looking at you) will purposely switch names into the wrong order. Like labelling Cheng Fei as Fei Cheng. Don't do that.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Oddly, I always thought the abbreviations helped me learn names.

Who was the blowback about using abbreviations coming from?