2024 Chinese National Championships + Trials

[MaryClare]

Additionally, there is an issue with calling asian (or just Chinese?) gymnasts by their given name only? Because we talk about Simone or Jordan or Eythora all the time and aren't being asked to use their family name too (or instead).

I also think that Chuso is a good diminutive cuz it means I don't have to accidentally misspell her name but everyone knows who you are talking about.

It’s about cultural differences. Simone, Jordan and Eythora are from countries where it’s absolutely normal to refer to people using just their first name. It was raised recently that Gabby prefers to be known as Gabrielle, but I haven’t seen that be particularly adopted, either by fans or the media.

Regarding Chusovitina, the Chuso/Chusa thing is purely phonetic. Chusa is how you say the first part of her name. It’s not an O versus A thing. Chusa is just what sounds right.

 

[Passion]

The current rumors, emphasis on rumors:

Zhejiang province threw all their chips in on locking Zhang Qingying onto the team, they aren't pushing for Luo Huan at all. The powers that be want to stack their chances on beam gold. Zhang Yihan is lock. Du Siyu made too many enemies in Beijing, she's out. Ou Yushan is in.

Rumors. There were different rumors going around before the test started that ended up being false, so we'll see how true these end up being.

The above team has no UB backup at all. Zhou Yaqin would have to do UB in prelims. I've stayed up two hours later then I planned reading about all this, it's like a train wreck you can't look away from. They need to name this damn team already because I need to sleep this week lol.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The current rumors, emphasis on rumors:

Zhejiang province threw all their chips in on locking Zhang Qingying onto the team, they aren't pushing for Luo Huan at all. The powers that be want to stack their chances on beam gold. Zhang Yihan is lock. Du Siyu made too many enemies in Beijing, she's out. Ou Yushan is in.

Rumors. There were different rumors going around before the test started that ended up being false, so we'll see how true these end up being.

The above team has no UB backup at all. Zhou Yaqin would have to do UB in prelims. I've stayed up two hours later then I planned reading about all this, it's like a train wreck you can't look away from. They need to name this damn team already because I need to sleep this week lol.

I for one am enjoying the intrigue.

 

[makam]

popcorn for everyone! (maybe this drama was why the men's selection was kept seeekreeet)


(though personally I am glad to be having conspiracy discussions about the selection and politics of the Chinese team rather than the ages of the gymnasts)

 

[Aeris]

Hopefully that's true about taking Zhang Qingying, she's much more valuable than Luo Huan. Now they just need to be smart and take Du Siyu over Ou Yushan too.

The above team has no UB backup at all. Zhou Yaqin would have to do UB in prelims.

Zhou Yaqin is the backup though? She's settled into a consistent low 13's UB, that's perfectly fine. I really dislike it when people call routines like this "unusable". The 4th routine in a team lineup won't be needed 95% of the time, and frequently these so-called "unusable" routines are scoring within .5 of the "team final worthy" routine!

 

[IratePanda]

Additionally, there is an issue with calling asian (or just Chinese?) gymnasts by their given name only? Because we talk about Simone or Jordan or Eythora all the time and aren't being asked to use their family name too (or instead).

I also think that Chuso is a good diminutive cuz it means I don't have to accidentally misspell her name but everyone knows who you are talking about.

Yes. In general, only close family members or friends address one another by their given names (or some kind of diminutive or nickname). Teachers and coaches use full names.

 

[IratePanda]

The current rumors, emphasis on rumors:

Zhejiang province threw all their chips in on locking Zhang Qingying onto the team, they aren't pushing for Luo Huan at all. The powers that be want to stack their chances on beam gold. Zhang Yihan is lock. Du Siyu made too many enemies in Beijing, she's out. Ou Yushan is in.

Rumors. There were different rumors going around before the test started that ended up being false, so we'll see how true these end up being.

The above team has no UB backup at all. Zhou Yaqin would have to do UB in prelims. I've stayed up two hours later then I planned reading about all this, it's like a train wreck you can't look away from. They need to name this damn team already because I need to sleep this week lol.

I'm not concerned about putting ZYQ on UB in Prelims. I'm much more concerned about putting ZQY on any event in TF. She does not inspire confidence. Granted, I'm a charter member of the Luo Huan Fan Club (founded during 2012 Chinese Junior Nationals), so I'm deeply, unapologetically biased.

 

[Passion]

Zhou Yaqin is the backup though? She's settled into a consistent low 13's UB, that's perfectly fine. I really dislike it when people call routines like this "unusable". The 4th routine in a team lineup won't be needed 95% of the time, and frequently these so-called "unusable" routines are scoring within .5 of the "team final worthy" routine!

If Zhang Yihan falls on UB in qualifications, who goes up in TF? They would still have to send her up with fingers crossed, that's what I mean by no backup. They're not sticking Zhou Yaqin up in TF for a 13.1 on UB. We already don't want to count a 13.1 on VT! If Luo Huan was there and had a 14 on UB in quals you'd replace ZYH with her for the final for a sure hit.

Zhang Yihan scored 14.5 in qualifying at Cottbus but then 13.6 in the final. She didn't even qualify for the UB final at Nationals, she got a 13.2 in qualifying. She put up 14.45 in the AA, then she fell at the Trial for 12.733. She hasn't hit two routines in a row this year. Even if she hits in qualifications at the Olympics, it's statistically likely she'll fall in TF.

Du Siyu went to Baku, put up a 14.266 in qualifying then 13.3 in the final. She put up a 14.2 in quals at Nationals, 14.5 in the AA, then fell twice in the final for a 12.433. Trials she collapsed on her pirouette for a 12.666.

Meanwhile Luo Huan has been a steady 13.9-14.1 every time out this year. She was sent to Cairo, and unlike ZYH and DSY, actually brought home a medal on UB (silver behind HZF's gold.) She would be the rock of this team, but instead they're going to gamble it all away and we'll end up off the podium in TF again.

I'm not concerned about putting ZYQ on UB in Prelims. I'm much more concerned about putting ZQY on any event in TF. She does not inspire confidence. Granted, I'm a charter member of the Luo Huan Fan Club (founded during 2012 Chinese Junior Nationals), so I'm deeply, unapologetically biased.

At least if ZQY crashes in prelims, OYS, ZYQ, QQY could still be the TF lineup. If Du Siyu is brought over Ou Yushan though, you'd be forced to use Zhang Qingying on BB in TF no matter what.

 

[ucrgirl]

If you’re bringing someone just to vault, Du Siyu’s DTY gets bigger air.

China needs hit routines on every event more than they need the tenths on vault though. Last year they had 3 low vaults. They had all hit routines counting in Prelims and finished 3rd. They counted two falls in TF and lost the bronze by .9 tenths. Just one less fall would have had them over France. Replicating their 165.663 from Prelims would have had them in silver over Brazil!

That was with using 4.4, 4.4, 4.2 VTs. This year they will have Zhang Yihan's DTT, that vault alone upgrades the total. The most important thing is NOT FALLING on the other events.

My team is Qiu Qiyuan, Zhou Yaqin, Zhang Yihan, Ou Yushan, Luo Huan. I'd love a big VT rotation, but I don't take risks, I want the stability. Even this team is riskier than I'd like.

Thank you for explaining your team logic so clearly. I have vague memories of Chinese teams looking great for medals on paper but team medals due to falls. You make a very strong case for a team using more stable gymnasts with slightly lower scores. It might not be the "highest scoring team" in excel, but under competition lights it could be the team that would actually score the highest.

Thank you for so many informative posts in this thread I'm tempted to go back through and like all of them.

 

[Seyonne]

Wait… what kind of enemies could Du Siyu make? Is she just argumentative or unpleasant ?

 

[Passion]

The training squad (plus some others) went to Happy Valley amusement park after the test.

From ZYQ's weibo.

 

[makam]

Yes. In general, only close family members or friends address one another by their given names (or some kind of diminutive or nickname). Teachers and coaches use full names.

But we all basically pretend we are friends with the gymnasts of any nationality online. I'm not sure I'd even address Simone as Simone to her face cuz you know, we aren't actually friends.

 

[Passion]

Wait… what kind of enemies could Du Siyu make? Is she just argumentative or unpleasant ?

She's gotten into trouble in the past for things she's posted on social media. She's also had some conflicts with other gymnasts. One of the directors in Beijing doesn't like her and I guess the rumor is they aren't going to push for her now (Beijing is her province.)

But it's still just a rumor. One of the rumors before the test was that Zhang Yihan lost her DTT and that obviously wasn't true. People seem to be taking this one more seriously though.

 

[IratePanda]

The training squad (plus some others) went to Happy Valley amusement park after

She's gotten into trouble in the past for things she's posted on social media. She's also had some conflicts with other gymnasts. One of the directors in Beijing doesn't like her and I guess the rumor is they aren't going to push for her now (Beijing is her province.)

But it's still just a rumor. One of the rumors before the test was that Zhang Yihan lost her DTT and that obviously wasn't true. People seem to be taking this one more seriously though.

Didn't DSY also launch a smear campaign against ZYH?

When you mention the rumor that people are taking more seriously, do you mean the one concerning Luo Huan and ZQY? There is one reason that Zhejiang might be boosting ZQY instead of Luo Huan. ZQY is a Zhejiang native. Luo Huan is not. IIRC, Luo Huan was born in Huber and began her gymnastics training there. Zhejiang recruited her when she was very young, and she's been competing for them ever since.

The rumor goes that Zhejiang really wants a local girl on the Olympic team, hence their (ostensible) push for ZQY. If this is true, they have a very short memory. In 2021, a certain gymnast named Guan Chenchen went to Tokyo and won China's only WAG gold. Like Luo Huan, GCC is a Hubei native who represented Zhejiang for most of her career. They've probably also forgotten about Huang Huidan (2013 World UB champ, runner-up in 2014) and Jiang Yuyuan (historic AA silver in 2010). Neither gymnast is a Zhejiang native. They were both born in Guangxi.

The tl;dr is that if the rumors are true, Zhejiang needs a serious history lesson. Their most successful international gymnasts haven't been native-born. The one exception might be He Ning, who contributed a lot to China's team gold at 2006 Worlds. The last Zhejiang-born Olympian was Yang Bo in 1992. She was supposed to win beam. That didn't go according to plan.

 

[MaryClare]

Sorry to go back to the topic of names again, but this has bothered me for DECADES.

Why is it a Yang Bo and not a Yang? I need this answered

 

[IratePanda]

Sorry to go back to the topic of names again, but this has bothered me for DECADES.

Why is it a Yang Bo and not a Yang? I need this answered

I think it helps differentiate two homophonous skill names in Chinese. The surname "Yang" has the same pronunciation as the word for "sheep" (different pictographs, but same tone). The split jump with head release is "Yang Bo tiao," and the sheep jump is "yang tiao." Perhaps the distinction found its way into the FIG Codes
.

 

[Aeris]

If Zhang Yihan falls on UB in qualifications, who goes up in TF?

She does! You don't need to change a lineup just because someone didn't do their best in qualifying. Her only likely mistake to begin with is on the Clear-hip Layout, which she doesn't need to do for team final. She already scores mid-14 with her easier routine.

It's some ridiculous Marta Karolyi crap to change a lineup any time someone doesn't do their best in qualifying, and to build a team around the concept of needing backup for the team final if one of your better routines doesn't hit in qualifying.

Luo Huan would be the rock of this team, but instead they're going to gamble it all away and we'll end up off the podium in TF again.

Where is the gamble? Luo Huan's 13.9 UB is not impressive and she had a 12.2 BB at Nationals, I would not call her a rock there. She's 2/3 on BB routines this season, Zhang Qingying is 4/5 and has the higher scoring potential, plus the much better vault. Even if a scenario came up where one of the top 3 UB workers can't compete, Luo Huan is only adding .7 on that event over using Zhou Yaqin instead; Zhang Qingying already pays that back on vault.

Trying to build a team around consistent medicore scores is not some sure way of getting on the podium. You can get outscored by other teams who do their best if you're not bringing your better routines, and you're hurting yourself for event finals when you select a team in this overly defensive manner. You also reduce your chance of actually winning the team event.

 

[Denn]

Sorry to go back to the topic of names again, but this has bothered me for DECADES.

Why is it a Yang Bo and not a Yang? I need this answered

Mainly because it's almost as weird to refer to Chinese people by only their last names as it is to refer to them by their first names.

 

[Hatsumomo]

Back in 2021, Murakami specifically asked foreign media to use her surname. In Japanese culture, you don't call somebody by their given name unless you're very close to them (e.g., parents, spouse, absolute bestie).

 

[Passion]

Didn't DSY also launch a smear campaign against ZYH?

Yes

When you mention the rumor that people are taking more seriously, do you mean the one concerning Luo Huan and ZQY? There is one reason that Zhejiang might be boosting ZQY instead of Luo Huan. ZQY is a Zhejiang native. Luo Huan is not. IIRC, Luo Huan was born in Huber and began her gymnastics training there. Zhejiang recruited her when she was very young, and she's been competing for them ever since.

Yes, the rumor that Zhang Qingying is locked in as the third person on the team, Zhejiang is abandoning Luo Huan, and the rumor that Du Siyu isn't making the team came from the same source. They also said mini is a lock, so the 5th person should be obvious <-- quote from them. With LH dropped, OYS is left as the 5th.

ZQY as the 3rd team member is what everyone is absolutely losing their minds about, whereas the pre-test rumors were being discussed with more suspicion.

Incidentally, ZQY is missing from the photos of the park trip.

The rumor goes that Zhejiang really wants a local girl on the Olympic team, hence their (ostensible) push for ZQY. If this is true, they have a very short memory. In 2021, a certain gymnast named Guan Chenchen went to Tokyo and won China's only WAG gold. Like Luo Huan, GCC is a Hubei native who represented Zhejiang for most of her career. They've probably also forgotten about Huang Huidan (2013 World UB champ, runner-up in 2014) and Jiang Yuyuan (historic AA silver in 2010). Neither gymnast is a Zhejiang native. They were both born in Guangxi.

Looking at it from what might possibly be Zhejiang's perspective, LH is a safer choice for the team, but a lot of people would have to jump out of the way for her to win an individual medal. If the rumors are true, they could be more interested in gambling on ZQY nabbing them a beam medal to give more "personal" glory to Zhejiang vs what they would get for just having a gymnast on a medal winning team. If everyone hits she'll be 2per'd from the final, but if ZYQ or QQY have a wobble.. ZQY could luck her way in there.

Possibly shooting themselves in the foot if ZQY is ahead of one of QQY or ZYQ for the BB final but all three are in the top 8. QQY/ZYQ have the better chance of beating Biles.