2024 US National WAG qualifiers

[irichluck21]

What is the point in lowering the score?

To qualify more athletes to Nationals. Given the state of the juniors and lack of apparent talent it benefits USAG to qualify more to Nationals to get that experience and also to witness who might be someone with future potential that can be invited to camps, etc

 

[RedBirdie]

I've updated the chart in the original post to reflect the change.

The IEC also passed this:

Recommendation to add the following to the 2024 Elite Qualification Chart.
1. Junior National Team: The Top three in the All-Around after two (2) days of competition at the U.S. Championships will secure a spot on the National Team. The Athlete Selection Committee will select a minimum of three (3) additional athletes based on the team’s needs.
2. Senior National Team: Per the 2024 Olympic Selection Procedures, the top two (2) All-Around athletes, after two (2) days of competition, will be invited to the 2024 Olympic Trials and secure a National Team spot.
A minimum of ten (10) additional athletes will be named to the National Team from the US Championships.

 

[Passion]

It seems so silly to limit automatic Trials invitations to just the top two. I can’t envision ANY scenario where say the top 6 AA wouldn’t go to Trials and be on the National Team.

Even if all your top athletes fell on every event and somehow like the D-team finishes 3rd-6th, you’re obviously still taking them all to Trials for being the only damn people apparently able to hit their routines lol.

 

[Aeris]

It's silly to ever have less than 24 people at trials anyway. Why rob people of the competition experience or have a different environment than 6 people rotating on each apparatus like it always is for AA at Worlds/Olympics. If there are less than 24 eligible Seniors then I would even invite some Juniors to fill out the trials roster and get that experience.

 

[RedBirdie]

Trials will only run two events at a time. My guess is, as a result, the number of invites will be around 16.

 

[MaryClare]

It's silly to ever have less than 24 people at trials anyway. Why rob people of the competition experience or have a different environment than 6 people rotating on each apparatus like it always is for AA at Worlds/Olympics. If there are less than 24 eligible Seniors then I would even invite some Juniors to fill out the trials roster and get that experience.

24 athletes at trials is a terrible idea. It means missing key routines. And juniors?! Just no. Especially now, when the calibre of juniors isn’t what it once was. It’s not like 2012 when you had the likes of Biles, Ohashi, Priessman, Desch. None of whom would have looked out of place at Olympic trials

 

[Aeris]

What do you mean missing key routines? The judges score it the same regardless and there are replays for the committee to watch. Realistically at Trials there's never more than 12 "actual" contenders for the Olympics anyway, who can be put in the same 2 rotation groups. I disagree about the juniors, the top few are better than the low ranking seniors and it doesn't really matter either way, the point is to just give them experience in case there aren't enough seniors to fill the 24 quota.

 

[Passion]

I don't think the USOC would allow people not eligible for the Olympics to Trial for the Olympics.

If USAG wanted to hold some secondary meet for people to get experience, then I guess they could do that. But that's basically what Nationals already is. Why have two Nationals two weeks apart? We basically already do that every year anyway with US Classic and Nationals on top of each other.

They run Trials only two events at a time so the audience both in the arena and at home aren't missing routines. NBC wants every major routine on the screen live if they can manage it.

I feel it would take away the prestige of competing at the Olympic Trials if you just brought everyone along. It's not meant to be an experience-gaining event, the USOC holds Olympic Trials in every sport to determine the Olympic Team, that's all.

 

[Aeris]

I don't think it matters they aren't eligible, they are just there to take part in the competition that happens to be called the Olympic Trials. This is common in other sports, where Nationals serve as the final Olympic selection event and there are juniors competing alongside seniors. Or for example Melanie de Jesus competing in some competitions last year while not being eligible for podiums, or Gabby famously at Classics.

2 events at a time being nicest for the live audience is the best argument IMO, but then again if the 12 most relevant competitors are in the same 2 rotation groups, then it's essentially the same thing of where to look. Preparing the athletes themselves for the Olympics should be the biggest concern IMO, and matching the Olympic environment serves them best.

 

[JaJa]

I don't think it matters they aren't eligible, they are just there to take part in the competition that happens to be called the Olympic Trials. This is common in other sports, where Nationals serve as the final Olympic selection event and there are juniors competing alongside seniors. Or for example Melanie de Jesus competing in some competitions last year while not being eligible for podiums, or Gabby famously at Classics.

2 events at a time being nicest for the live audience is the best argument IMO, but then again if the 12 most relevant competitors are in the same 2 rotation groups, then it's essentially the same thing of where to look. Preparing the athletes themselves for the Olympics should be the biggest concern IMO, and matching the Olympic environment serves them best.

It doesn't "happen[] to be called the Olympic Trials" it is the Olympic Trials. Can not and should not be handled as just another meet for people to get competition experience.

 

[MaryClare]

This is genuinely the worst idea in the history of the gymnternet

 

[irichluck21]

Or for example Melanie de Jesus competing in some competitions last year while not being eligible for podiums, or Gabby famously at Classics.

These are USAG sanctioned meets though. You can't compare then to the Olympic Trials which is sanctioned by the USOTC. Marta had preferred to do away with Olympic Trials completely during her tenure and USOTC immediately denied that request.

Besides Junior have their own Olympics now, the Youth Olympics- except the USA WAG never send anyone.

 

[Passion]

I wish there was a junior Worlds the year of the Olympics. I thought that was the original proposal before Covid, for junior Worlds every year? I could be remembering wrong.

 

[Aeris]

It doesn't "happen[] to be called the Olympic Trials" it is the Olympic Trials. Can not and should not be handled as just another meet for people to get competition experience.

It wouldn't be handled as "just another meet". It's the most prestigious domestic competition of the year and would be structured exactly like a World/Olympic AA, thereby giving the athletes a more proper preparation for what's coming.

@irichluck21 How is it then that so many other sports are able to have events, like a Nationals, that are used to select the Olympic team and have people not eligible for the Olympics competing in them?

 

[RedBirdie]

The point on Olympic Trials to have the field narrowed down to just the true Olympic contenders. Not guests from another country, not age-ineligible juniors. The point is to have a small, select group. Casting a wide net is NOT the purpose of Olympic Trials

In fact, USAG events very rarely have guest competitors. Melanie is very much an exception. Everyone else who has competed in US domestic competitions but eventually represented another country has held dual citizenship.

As for the juniors, they don't compete with the seniors. USAG holds separate sessions, except on rare occasions when scheduling forces their hand (some years there are so few seniors at American Classic it makes sense to hold only one session, or one junior session and one mixed session).

 

[MaryClare]

It wouldn't be handled as "just another meet". It's the most prestigious domestic competition of the year and would be structured exactly like a World/Olympic AA, thereby giving the athletes a more proper preparation for what's coming.

@irichluck21 How is it then that so many other sports are able to have events, like a Nationals, that are used to select the Olympic team and have people not eligible for the Olympics competing in them?

The point of Olympic Trials is not to prepare gymnasts for what’s coming. Why would you structure it like an Olympic AA, when only 2 gymnasts of those 24 are going to compete in an Olympic AA. And with current age trends in the sport, it’s less likely that those contenders are lacking in experience.

There’s definitely an argument for scrapping Olympic trials completely and selecting the team at nationals. Or not having nationals at all in an Olympic year and crowning the national champion at Olympic trials. However neither USOC nor NBC appear to want that, and neither of those options would involve juniors competing “for experience”.

Why do other sports have different Olympic selection processes? Because they are other sports.

 

[MaryClare]

. Everyone else who has competed in US domestic competitions but eventually represented another country has held dual citizenship.

Irina Alexeeva wasn’t a US citizen. She possibly is now

 

[RedBirdie]

Right, my mistake. She held permanent residency. And IIRC, she wasn't allowed to compete at championships, classics was as far as she could go.

 

[irichluck21]

How is it then that so many other sports are able to have events, like a Nationals, that are used to select the Olympic team and have people not eligible for the Olympics competing in them?

That is a question for the USOTC.

I only know of figure skating that uses Nationals results (along with other results) to select the Olympic Team. Perhaps because it is individual/pairs, or perhaps the USOTC agreed to their selection plan. Not sure.

 

[Aeris]

The point of Olympic Trials is not to prepare gymnasts for what’s coming. Why would you structure it like an Olympic AA, when only 2 gymnasts of those 24 are going to compete in an Olympic AA.

It's not known which 2 it will be and usually there will be 3 doing AA in qualifying. Ideally the Olympics is 6 person teams and everyone allowed to do AA in qualifying if they want (as silly as the structure was for this previous Olympics, at least we got 6 people doing AA in quals), but either way the athletes benefit from that competitive environment at trials. I don't see any real drawback, just upside.