2023 World Championships & Pan American Games Team Trials (USA)

[RedBirdie]

gymnasts like Skinner and Roberson seem to have an infamous domestic reputation that has them (correctly) harshly evaluated at home, such that international meets basically uphold their scores, while other American gymnasts whose faults were more overlooked get a bigger relative hit.

Working of memory here, as I’m at the airport and don’t have the computer with my spreadsheets…but Skinner saw the largest difference in domestic vs. Tokyo judging for hit routines.

 

[MaryClare]

I can’t speak for anyone else but personally I find Roberson’s gymnastics absolutely horrendous. Worse than Skinner ever was. Worse than Raisman ever was. I even went back and watched these gymnasts, just to make sure I had no recency bias.

I understand why she has been selected for worlds though. I’m just hoping that next to beautiful gymnasts like Shi, Skye and Leanne, and the technically supreme Simone, her gymnastics will stand out for just how awful it is and she won’t score as well as she did at world cups on her own.

 

[Hatsumomo]

Just doing a quick scan, from Olympic Trials to Tokyo qualifications, Skinner scored at least half a point lower on all events save for UB where her score actually increased by .2. The biggest difference was her Trials beam at a 7.833 and her Tokyo QT at 7.133.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I think it was an untaken opportunity more than a tactical error. Jordan had the goods to get an AA medal, and the US have missed out on two on the podium a lot recently. They didnt have a 3rd legit AAer in either Tokyo or Liverpool, whereas they have the chance to build that in now.

 

[navyblue]

Not much lower on vault either. 2 tenths lower in finals. I think looking at these score sheets and Youtube routines though I have to retract that idea that Skinner was more immune to the score deflation though. But I’m not so sure she was hit the hardest either… Every American gymnast saw it on Floor and Beam especially. Though it’s impossible to make perfect comparisons, since the performances were also worse than at Trials. I think most folks’ takeaway was that artistry deductions were being applied on those two events in Tokyo that American judges weren’t really.

 

[makam]

Roberson is growing on me with her consistency and grit. The thing is, her coaches haven’t had her that long and they aren’t idiots (well, I don’t think they are but then you look at Caylor’s switch leap…). They know where she is losing points. I know we would all rather they keep her back from competitions until she has addressed her weaknesses because she is clearly very talented at gymnastics and has the mental game too, but they must think they can figure out ways to maximize her skills and scores while still going to all the big meets. I’ll be really sad if she never improves like Skinner never really seemed to because it is such a waste of talent to let them do gymnastics that look so much worse than they really are.

 

[Laura722]

I think people overestimate international judging these days. It’s not the 80’s, 90’s, or even the early 2000’s. The judges don’t have a whole lot to choose from. They are harsh with everyone. Sloppy form, wonky technique, and bent knees are in vogue around the world, unfortunately.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

I just don’t understand why that is, like I’ve even seen dumpy double tucks from international elites. Is everyone just taking shortcuts now because there hasn’t been compulsories in 27 years? Or am I just looking at the early 00s with rose-colored glasses because that’s when I became a regular fan of gymnastics? Or is it the code that’s forcing everyone to do the same cookie cutter skills? Why has mediocrity become the norm?

 

[gymfan]

She received the scores from multiple Category 2 competitions. The Category 2 judges are more indicative on the execution of the code than online armchair judges.

 

[gymfan]

Re: artistry deduction. Here are the deductions:

• 1. body posture -0.1
• 1. insufficient amplitude -0.1
• 1. poor foot work -0.1
• 1. insufficient involvement of body part -0.1
     *** 5. expressive engagement according to the style of music -0.1/0.3**
• 1. lack of fluency -0.1
• 1. insufficient complexity -0.1
• 1. poor choreography in corner -0.1
• 1. missing movement touching the floor -0.1
• 1. no structure of music -0.1
• 1. lack of sync between movement and music beat -0.1
     *** 12. background music -0.1/0.3**

The reality is, 0.8 out of 1.6 deductions are musicality. Some other deductions are composition. Roberson’s musicality is her relative strength. Hope that helps.

I agree her form needs improvements, but as others mentioned, gymnastics is a sports that consist of D & E, and E also depends on consistency. I wish there are constructive criticisms than factless claims and unnecessary negativity.

 

[MaryClare]

What musicality? You can see her waiting for her cues. I actually find her floor more painful to watch than her bars because I get that she’s never going to be good bars workers, some gymnasts just aren’t. But there’s no excuse for that floor routine.

This is a discussion board for fans. Constructive criticism isn’t our job, it’s the job of her coaches. We don’t have to find positives in her gymnastics.

 

[gymfan]

She hits all her music beats. In person, she engages the audience well with the synchronized movement, music and eye contact. There is a smooth transition and music synchronization in her wolf turn. There are certainly positivities in her floor just based on musicality. You don’t have to find positivities, but those negativities (absolutely horrendous, how awful it is) are unnecessary.

 

[MaryClare]

but those negativities (absolutely horrendous, how awful it is) are unnecessary.

They aren’t “unnecessary”, they are my opinion of the performance. You don’t have to agree with them, but opinions are pretty essential to the concept of a discussion board.

Wow, the Roberson cultists are WEIRD. And I’ve been to Pyongyang

 

[gymfan]

Gymnastics is a critical sports, not a toxic sports. Commentators don’t use these languages on any gymnasts. You have your opinions for sure, but it doesn’t mean these hard-working gymnasts deserve such hates. Also, I would prefer Carey to Roberson for a worlds spot early this year, but the competition results speak for themselves. The Pyongyang comparison is unwise because I’m not an authority to deprive your rights. It’s often the opposite. They allow people to say terrible things to minorities without regulation, but the west does regulate hate speech.

 

[Hatsumomo]

Gymnastics is a critical sports, not a toxic sports.

Errrm…

 

[Ginger]

MaryClare, do you realize how you contradict yourself?

You don’t have to agree with them, but opinions are pretty essential to the concept of a discussion board.

Wow, the Roberson cultists are WEIRD. And I’ve been to Pyongyang

So, if someone disagrees with you, he or she is automatically a cultist?

And, you know, you can express your (negative) opinion of the performance without being rude. But that’s your choice.

And my opinion.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

Yeah Roberson is slightly less offensive on the artistry front than Carey, but her form is certainly far worse.

For the people suggesting Blakely should sit out FX, please tell me that means you’d plan on having Wong do AA then… The USA should put up 3 women/girls for AA in TQ and Roberson should not be one of them. They can absorb a 12.3 fourth score if Blakely bombs floor

 

[Ginger]

Yes, I would definitely have Wong doing AA. Why not?
Why would they have Skye doing floor when she didn’t break 13 this past month?

AA-wise, Skye and Leanne are pretty much neck by neck, and I believe they were tied on vault this Tuesday?

The only reason to have Skye doing AA over Leanne would be to have her try vault and get some exposure/international experience competing it, as someone said she might be upgrading to Cheng in the future (and thus become a serious medal contender for Paris)

 

[Laura722]

Yeah, I’ve been wondering the same thing. I really hate beam in particular. My guess is that a lot of it has to do with the code.

 

[KristyJ]

Agreed on both points

Roberson frankly gets fewer artistry deductions than Jade, but more form deductions make up for the difference there.

As for the AA, I would put Wong in instead of Blakely. Even though Skye’s highest AA score is higher than Leanne’s, the difference there comes from the events they will likely both be doing anyways (UB, BB), and Leanne has shown better scores and more consistency on vault and floor.