FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal) PART 2

[crdubb17]

For the millionth time I’ll say how much I hate fx. I often leave the room. It’s too cringy to watch. The music often has too many cuts that add up to an unlistenable mess. I’d ditch the music and turn it into mag fx. I might even just turn it into tumbling. You want grace and controlled movements? That’s what beam is for.

Am I wrong for saying that I absolutely abhor what beam ‘choreography’ has become? They look ridiculous most of the time. I have also noticed that this is a common critique to casual viewers: “the flips and jumps are cool, but why are they doing all of that weird arm flailing?”

 

[makam]

Artistry in figure skating has been on a constant decline since the mid 00's - after the new scoring system of assigning points to everything was introduced.

Gymnastics faces the same problem. When routines are no longer about the overall whole, no longer about giving a complete performance as an inherent necessity to score well, then that's what you're going to get from competitors - people who don't try as much to perform and are visibly doing math in their head as they move their routines, thinking about points instead of being in the moment and trying to express themselves.

Death to the leap sequence! Or give them a box of 10 possible artistic things, including a leap sequence for the same value and let the gymnast pick what fits in their routine. A cartwheel looks more artistic than the labored leap sequences in every routine.

On beam, death to the switch half!

 

[Denn]

Death to the leap sequence! Or give them a box of 10 possible artistic things, including a leap sequence for the same value and let the gymnast pick what fits in their routine. A cartwheel looks more artistic than the labored leap sequences in every routine.

On beam, death to the switch half!

Don't even give them 10 things! Instead:

1. Delete the leap passage requirement, like you said. It's awful.
   
   
2. Institute 0.1 deductions for "not dancing either into or out of a dance element". They have to do at least one or the other.
   
   
3. Make one of the required dance "elements" a Choreography element, rated A to H (0.1 to 0.8) by the D-panel, where each tenth is for every time the gymnast actually does a passage of "creative choreography". The D-panel has almost nothing to do on floor anyway, and this would remove one more hideous leap or redundant spin. A passage could be ≈7-8 seconds; for most uptempo music, that's 16 beats.
   
   
4. Have a 0.1 deduction for "Poor dance quality in performing a dance passage".
   
   
5. Get rid of some of the other black box deductions that are for the whole routine.

 

[MaryClare]

Don't even give them 10 things! Instead:

1. Delete the leap passage requirement, like you said. It's awful.
   
   
2. Institute 0.1 deductions for "not dancing either into or out of a dance element". They have to do at least one or the other.
   
   
3. Make one of the required dance "elements" a Choreography element, rated A to H (0.1 to 0.8) by the D-panel, where each tenth is for every time the gymnast actually does a passage of "creative choreography". The D-panel has almost nothing to do on floor anyway, and this would remove one more hideous leap or redundant spin. A passage could be ≈7-8 seconds; for most uptempo music, that's 16 beats.
   
   
4. Have a 0.1 deduction for "Poor dance quality in performing a dance passage".
   
   
5. Get rid of some of the other black box deductions that are for the whole routine.

Agree. But the penalties need to be higher. Otherwise it becomes a deduction that most gymnasts will just carry since they are so rarely in a situation where 0.1 matters enough

 

[Denn]

Agree. But the penalties need to be higher. Otherwise it becomes a deduction that most gymnasts will just carry since they are so rarely in a situation where 0.1 matters enough

But notice how I structured that — 0.1 EACH TIME. For both the deduction for not dancing into or out of a dance element AND for EVERY dance passage that is poorly done.

 

[Doug1233]

just have an artistry panel. Judges with a dance and ballet background, where their sole focus is on artistry, flow, moving in and out of elements. basically, the 70 seconds of a 90 second routine where the gymnast isn’t performing a skill.

The E Panel have enough shit to do.

 

[KristyJ]

I wonder how a panel with a ballet or lyrical background would judge some of the hip hop routines or Simone Rose's that has step moves in it

 

[Denn]

just have an artistry panel. Judges with a dance and ballet background, where their sole focus is on artistry, flow, moving in and out of elements. basically, the 70 seconds of a 90 second routine where the gymnast isn’t performing a skill.

The E Panel have enough shit to do.

Too expensive. And it's not a dance competition per se. It never has been and nobody wants that.

That's why I think it makes sense to remove the overall impression, which IS harder for the E-panel to do, in a way, and call for actual dance passages. They'd get treated like lower-difficulty elements — deducted on the spot with the 0.1 deduction I mentioned. Plus, the D-panel is literally sitting there doing nothing during dance. Scripting women's floor exercise is the easiest task among the 8 non-vault apparatus in gymnastics. Writing DP for "dance passage" is not a lot of extra work for them.

 

[MaryClare]

I wonder how a panel with a ballet or lyrical background would judge some of the hip hop routines or Simone Rose's that has step moves in it

Absolutely fine? Given that a significant number of dancers and choreographers within street and commercial dance are from a ballet background. It’s the other way round that wouldn’t work.

 

[JaJa]

And it's not a dance competition per se. It never has been and nobody wants that.

This

 

[flappergirl]

But many who fell in love with gymnastics in the late 80s and early 90s miss the artistry. Also I love the idea that there are multiple paths to be a successful gymnast. I care about power and difficulty just as much, when it’s done safely.

 

[Aeris]

Death to the leap sequence!

It's very bothersome how the leaps can't be directly connected. I'd also like to see 3 connected mixed series moves count as a fulfillment for the requirement. Those used to create unique and interesting moments in routines. For example, Khorkina's cat full + sideways to forward walkover + full turn:

 

[Bob]

I cannot stand her gymnastics. But everything I’ve seen of Joscelyn as person, she comes across as a really great kid. I don’t think her gymnastics is a result of her personality like with Skinner.

I don’t think the Landis were the ideal choice for her as they don’t really have experience of working with athletes with such poor foundation.

This a million times. Great kid hideous gymnastics.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

It's very bothersome how the leaps can't be directly connected. I'd also like to see 3 connected mixed series moves count as a fulfillment for the requirement. Those used to create unique and interesting moments in routines. For example, Khorkina's cat full + sideways to forward walkover + full turn:

The leaps CAN de directly connected. The proviso is that if they are indirectly connected, the connecting sequence must be composed of running steps, small leaps, hops, chassés, and/or chainé turns.

 

[Aeris]

The leaps CAN de directly connected.

The rules stipulate that it has to be a large travelling pattern. You can't do a switch ring directly into split full and end it there; that's why we see everyone doing a bunch of unnecessary steps inbetween. You could do a switch split into several split leaps, but that only creates more deduction.

 

[Concorde]

The rules stipulate that it has to be a large travelling pattern. You can't do a switch ring directly into split full and end it there; that's why we see everyone doing a bunch of unnecessary steps inbetween. You could do a switch split into several split leaps, but that only creates more deduction.

In the WTC presentations on the 2025 - 2028 COP, Ruby Pass's floor routine is used as an example of directly connected dance elements (Switch Leap + Tour Jete 1/2) which would fulfill the CR.

 

[KathySantoni]

It's very bothersome how the leaps can't be directly connected. I'd also like to see 3 connected mixed series moves count as a fulfillment for the requirement. Those used to create unique and interesting moments in routines. For example, Khorkina's cat full + sideways to forward walkover + full turn:

Does anyone think she should have beat Gina Gogean in that final?