2023 Russian Championships

[Puffin]

Listunova UB I have 8.6 E being pretty picky.



I can recall only a couple of Andrade UB routines as being cleaner this Quad so far. Shilese EF was close but not quite.

I was wondering about Listunova’s composition. Does she gain a lot from her final straddle Jaeger combo as it always leads to that awkward and usually short orphan half before dismount? Would she lose a lot if she dismounted after the Shap ½?

 

[Sasha]

Yeah, she’d be missing the required forward element.

Theoretically, she could do a cast 1/2 out of the Jaegar to avoid the orphan 1/2, but the Russians seem to love that orphan 1/2 for whatever reason. Wouldn’t a short cast 1/2 generate fewer deductions than a short giant 1/2?

 

[MaryClare]

for whatever reason.

It’s part of the national compulsory bars routine. They’ve all been competing it just prior to the dismount from the age of 9

 

[Sasha]

That explains a lot.

 

[MaryClare]

I must remember to upload some good examples of the Russian compulsory exercises. It’s such a massive part of our training here yet little is known of it in the international gymnastics community

 

[RAFIKI]

Please do :woman_cartwheeling:t3:

 

[makam]

The orphan 1/2 and the bent leg taps need to be removed from rotation, please.

 

[Puffin]

Sasha:

for whatever reason.

It’s part of the national compulsory bars routine. They’ve all been competing it just prior to the dismount from the age of 9

Ah I see - a shame that they continue to use it when so few manage to hit it consistently

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Its not authentic unless it’s well short of handstand.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

The lone 1/2 pirouette is usually only a .1 deduction… most gymnasts who do KCH 1/2 get a .3 deduction for lateness

 

[tsarinajen]

Listy’s floor.

 

[Doug1233]

I watched once but didn’t write anything down. I have an 8.3 (A1) and I think she was short on the Triple Wolf. Definitely short on the Switch Full. I think the Memmel was ok but would need to watch again.

HFDD/DDD1C2 = 6.0 (downgrading Triple Wolf and Switch Full, but crediting Double L and Memmel-illusion)

Total 14.3.

ETA: Watching again, all the turns are like 95% ok. The Illusion is a tiny bit short; the L drops momentarily mid Double L (although she eventually overturns it) and the Triple Wolf is like 2 inches short. Depends how tough the panel is being. A Tokyo panel might have downgraded that Double L but the Liverpool panel wouldn’t have, for example.

The only conclusive downgrade is the Switch Full, which Im sure they gave to her because 15.1…

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I had an 8.0 with A2 for cornering and lack of fluency. She’s having to pause in the corners and isn’t 100% selling this routine as she can, which is maybe more to do with expressive engagement. But it’s nitpicky as this is one of the best routines of the quad.

When she finishes her triple wolf, her leg is placed down upon the exact same place it started, parallel to the floor line. Her torso is dropped to her right slightly when she finishes but I deducted for that. Do you think the free leg loses proper position? Why would you downgrade?

Honestly in real time, the switch 1/1 looks about complete to me with a .1 for precision, .1 for the landing tho well disguised… Maybe .1 for the position in the air but she’s far better than most. When I slow it down I see she has significant pre-turn before leaving the floor but this isn’t exactly a crime according to CoP.

The dance skill I thought was the shortest was the illusion turn. It looked like a 1/2 illusion because we see so much of her front side (and then so much of her backside on the slow-mo review from opposing angle)

The L turn also drops real quick which I don’t think should be a downgrade but unfortunately it is, given how Melnikova’s was evaluated in 2021 Worlds

 

[Doug1233]

her leg is placed down upon the exact same place it started, parallel to the floor line. Her torso is dropped to her right slightly when she finishes but I deducted for that. Do you think the free leg loses proper position? Why would you downgrade?

In real time, I didn’t think it did. On a rewatch, I think it looks better (but i’m on my phone). ETA2: On a big screen watching this again, I would credit.

Honestly in real time, the switch 1/1 looks about complete to me with a .1 for precision, .1 for the landing tho well disguised

Hugely disagree. It’s clear in real time.

When I slow it down I see she has significant pre-turn before leaving the floor but this isn’t exactly a crime according to CoP.

She’s almost 90 degrees short on the landing.

The L turn also drops real quick which I don’t think should be a downgrade but unfortunately it is, given how Melnikova’s was evaluated in 2021 Worlds

I agree. And I think different panels would take different views on this. Tokyo would certainly downgrade (they downgraded all of Suni’s IIRC?).

The dance skill I thought was the shortest was the illusion turn. It looked like a 1/2 illusion because we see so much of her front side (and then so much of her backside on the slow-mo review from opposing angle)

I feel like in Liverpool they were crediting these. See some of the Dutch routines.

BTW, I love having these conversations. I feel like some actual Brevet judges don’t even go into this amount of detail. Ultimately, there’s always room for discussion. I wonder how a “negotiation” amongst D1 and D2 actually occurs in practice. For example, if me and you were D1 and D2 and we were both arguing about the Switch Full - who wins? Would we call the AS and ask her to decide? Would AS look at the video replay or is that only when there’s a formal inquiry? I know the judges rules allow huge discrepancy between the AS and the D Panel. Isn’t it like 3 tenths? What happens if D1 and D2 disagree? I assume, absent an AS intervention, you’d go with the higher score for benefit of the gymnast?

 

[Sasha]

How many other floor routines have gone 15+ this quad? It can’t be that many.

 

[Doug1233]

How many other floor routines have gone 15+ this quad? It can’t be that many.

None. Russian scoring is a joke.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

It barely ever happened last quad either. In major competition I think it was only a couple of Simone’s best days at the less parsimoniously judged worlds.

 

[MaryClare]

It isn’t a joke, it’s a domestic code of points. Melnikova has previously discussed how she doesn’t expect the same scores internationally.

 

[Sasha]

That’s what I thought. Good scores were in the low 14s in Liverpool. Domestic COP makes it make more sense though.

 

[irichluck21]

None. Russian scoring is a joke.

Russia has used a bonus system for years now. Not so much a joke as the bonus brings the score up.
The American men started using one last year.