2023 Russian Championships

[MaryClare]

No, there isn’t a way of knowing.

For example, Angelina Melnikova’s domestic AA scores in 2021 were 55.198, 56.064, 56.632, 56.831

Her AA scores in Olympics that year were 56.065, 57.132, 57.199
And in worlds 56.632

The Russian judges were absolutely spot on with how she’d be scored internationally. As was clearly the intention

 

[Doug1233]

The Russian judges were absolutely spot on with how she’d be scored internationally. As was clearly the intention

Right. So what changed between then and now?

 

[Caligym]

So no way of knowing which competitions in 2022 or 2023 use FIG and which use Russian special bonus rules?

 

[Caligym]

So the Russian championships always use the special Russian bonus rules? And some others do…but don’t know which?

 

[MaryClare]

They aren’t using the FIG code of points. Which has been the case intermittently for years. It’s not a big secret, or at least I didn’t think it was.

 

[Doug1233]

They aren’t using the FIG code of points.

Why not?

Less than 2 years ago, they were. What happened to cause Russia to disregard the international rulebook?

 

[Denn]

Back around 2000, give or take, the US Men’s program sometimes did all kinds of extra bonuses. They did it recently, too — crazy amounts of bonus, in fact.

I called it “Bogus Bonus” because it usually incentivizes stuff that is already incentivized the rules if someone were just to pay attention to them. This was before I was judging, but some guys in the program were livid that I criticized their little creation.

Of course, it’s worse now because the rules are already so freaking complicated — adding more complications that repeat what’s already causes more issues than benefits, I strongly feel.

It does, however, speak to a human nature thing — favoring bonuses, or at least things added up, instead of deductions/things taken away.

 

[irichluck21]

Like at the 1998 US Nationals when Brent Klaus scored a non-perfect ten vault (9.800 was his score) but he was given .2 bonus for the 10.0 SV vault.
9.800+.2=10.0

 

[Denn]

Right.

 

[RedBirdie]

I sort of understand the US Men’s bonus system now, or at the very least, the why behind it. The athletes themselves were saying they felt like they couldn’t compete the riskier routines because if you show up at Winter Cup with new, harder routines, but maybe not fully mastered, you very much ran the risk of not making the national team. And for the men, being on the NT and the money that comes with it is so crucial.

I think that’s a very legitimate concern for the athletes. They heard the program leaders saying “add more difficulty!” and had a very rational response of “okay, yes, but the system as currently constructed doesn’t incentivize taking risks.” Do I think the current bonus system as presently constructed is ideal? Nope. Do I appreciate seeing USAG’s MAG program try to find some sort of solution? Yes, and I hope they will continue to evaluate it and refine it, and make it better.

I’d like it much better if they only used it for Winter Cup and US Classic, but at least it’s a start. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good and all that.

 

[irichluck21]

I think the bonus system makes sense for multiple reasons, including the financial aspects, and countering the risk of a major execution deduction/ fall for trying a harder skill/routine.

But I do think they need to not choose teams based on the bonus system in terms of locking in all arounders.
Official AA standings should be based on bonus removed.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

So you agree, she deserved the perfect 40

 

[MaryClare]

Did she deserve it? Probably not. Do I agree with her being given it? Probably.

The internal gymnastics politics of that era, combined with global Cold War politics cannot really be interpreted via the medium of gifs from teen movies of the early 00s.

 

[onodian]

Did she deserve it? Probably not. Do I agree with her being given it? Probably.

I must say, I kind of agree. I don’t need the exaggeration to think she might have taken LA, but I kind of understand where this is coming from. It’s the same place where the references to “the greats of the past, Nadia, Olga and Mary Lou” was born. Trying to make up for reality.

 

[Doug1233]

Is it just me or does she have a super closed shoulder angle in her BHS before the Silivas (that’s not in her other back handsprings)


Also - I have been taking 1 for Listunova’s legs in her UB DMT but I really think it more warrants a 3:

 

[onodian]

How in earth are you so anal about all kinds of shit but you were giving that horror a 0.1. Legs don’t get any more apart without them breaking.

 

[MaryClare]

They aren’t so much apart, they just aren’t tucked. Or that’s how it looks in the picture

 

[RedBirdie]

Those legs are apart, and one is very tucked while the other is not.

 

[Doug1233]

To be fair, it was a split-second in the skill but yeah - that’s not a 1.

 

[onodian]

They aren’t so much apart, they just aren’t tucked. Or that’s how it looks in the picture

Mary, girl, don’t. Your eyes are failing you