2023 Russian Championships

[Sasha]

Arguably she’s the first gymnast to do a full in in wolf position. Definitely should be deducted to the max, we don’t want anyone else thinking it’s a good idea.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

ROV.

 

[Denn]

I took 5.

 

[Doug1233]

3 for leg sep, 1 for knees and …?

 

[Denn]

Disrespecting the gymnastics community.

Just kidding.

Sadly there’s no .5 deduction for leg separation, but this is so egregious that I’d have taken 5 and then let Donatella Sacchi question me. And when she did, I would say “Oh, I wrote 5, but I meant .3 leg separation, .1 body alignment, and .1 precision because the element doesn’t have clear phasing.”

 

[makam]

.1 precision is useful in this case but so abuseable. Oh, your arms weren’t in the perfect position, .1. Oh, you over rotated that spin, .1. Oh, your toenails weren’t painted the right color, .1.

(Random ot, does Jordan compete with the long nails on? Cuz props to her managing to not catch them on anything. The finger i nearly sawed off doesn’t bend as well as the others and seems to catch on every damn thing.)

 

[GymBeauty]

Silivas
Dos Santos - Stag 0.1
Switch Ring to Split Ring
Switch Half
Double L
Triple Wolf
Memmel to Illusion 0.1

HF1CCCDED12 = 6.0

There’s only 2 acro skills here, can’t count 6 non-acro.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

whip + whip + double tuck to close for a 6.2

 

[Doug1233]

There’s only 2 acro skills here, can’t count 6 non-acro.

Nice catch!

 

[Doug1233]

whip + whip + double tuck to close for a 6.2

This just proves my original point that that 3rd tumbling line for only 2 tenths more is crazy.

You’d maybe put a front layout step out in front of one of the tumbles, and count the B but gain the tenth in CV. Or a 3/2 step out and go down to a Double Tuck.

I don’t know why we aren’t seeing more 2-pass routines when the deductions are just so egregious.

There’s no universe where whip whip double tuck, together with the corner deductions in and out of it, is getting less than 2 tenths in deductions. Even a good one would get 4 or 5 total.

 

[GymBeauty]

Putting a front layout or 1.5 twist leading into an F+ acro is really hard. If you’re that good at acro, then most likely you want at least 3 acro passes anyway. The non-acro skills aren’t just free points. After you already have your leap passage and wolf turn, there’s generally not much else to put in a routine that is a reliable point getter. Going for Memmel + Illusion is clever, but not everyone is suited to doing that.

The dumb thing is when people are putting an extra acro line for only .1 start value gain; Listunova really shouldn’t have both the Double Tuck and Double Pike in the routine. One of them is perfectly fine though. Trying to cut the routine down to only 2 passes with Front Layout into Double Tuck as one of the acro lines isn’t the answer. She’d be losing .4 or .5 in start value, plus that makes the routine less exciting and should lead to an artistic deduction, unless the dance is amazing enough to completely sustain the music on its own (and it almost never is; very few gymnasts are ever going to be thoroughly artistic + have the dance technique to properly convey all the movement needed in a routine lacking acro).

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I disagree, Doug. Listunova’s double tuck doesn’t have any form deductions, and she did it as a fourth tumble in Tokyo without pausing in the corner. So if she’s just getting -0.1 for landing, it is worth it

 

[Doug1233]

All that effort for a tenth that she’s not even guaranteed?

She could easily turn that 0.1 into a 0.3.

It could make her more tired for her dismount.

She could get hit for feet. Or chest. Or even OOB.

All that risk for one measly tenth? No.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I think a switch 1/2 might be more costly, though. Let’s say she gets .1 in the air for splayed hips, then either .1 for precision of feet or landing or .1 for hopping out of it… basically anything below F is hardly worth it

 

[GymBeauty]

She could get flexed feet on the Double Tuck from what I’ve seen. Her chest was also low on landing at the recent Russian competition. It’s not a question of Switch 1/2 vs Double Tuck in the routine though. She should already being doing Switch 1/2 in the leap series. The real question should be Double L-turn vs Double Tuck for her routine composition. She is currently trying 9 C+ skills, one of them should come out. Possibly a Leg-up 1/1 or Split 1/1 or Popa could also be better than the Double-L or Double Tuck.

I would say the Double-L is not worth the risk with the way it gets evaluated these days. It’s the turn that’s most likely to get downgraded and also the turn most open to a precision deduction, because unless you’re a total master at it, you pretty much have to overturn it now to ensure the leg is up long enough for credit.

 

[irichluck21]

how about whip half, rudi, shushunova?
or
whip, 2 1/2 twist, punch tuck?

 

[GymBeauty]

how about whip half, rudi, shushunova?

It’s sad how little this is worth.

 

[Concorde]

I would say the Double-L is not worth the risk with the way it gets evaluated these days. It’s the turn that’s most likely to get downgraded and also the turn most open to a precision deduction, because unless you’re a total master at it, you pretty much have to overturn it now to ensure the leg is up long enough for credit.

Over rotating turns is permitted without deduction if the exit is controlled and moves directly into choreography (think Urazova’s double wolf turns). That said even with this allowance, you are right in that it would be difficult to do this on a double L turn.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

It’s not a question of Switch 1/2 vs Double Tuck in the routine though. She should already being doing Switch 1/2 in the leap series.

I think switch ring + ring leap should be her dance series. I agree the double L is dubious, though Listunova’s is consistently one of the best