US Classic Session 2 thread

[Passion]

If I were a part of USAG, I'd be questioning who that benefits. There's clearly a balance that's missing.

If you were part of USAG, what would you do about it besides question it?

Short of changing to a fully centralized system and having Memmel coach them all herself, what exactly is USAG supposed do? Start kicking gymnasts off the National Team? Not invite them to camps until their coach's obey? There isn't much you can hold over the coaches to force them to do what you want without punishing the athletes that are just doing what their coaches told them to do. The coaches don't work for USAG.

 

[dweiss324]

If you were part of USAG, what would you do about it besides question it?

Short of changing to a fully centralized system and having Memmel coach them all herself, what exactly is USAG supposed do? Start kicking gymnasts off the National Team? Not invite them to camps until their coach's obey? There isn't much you can hold over the coaches to force them to do what you want without punishing the athletes that are just doing what their coaches told them to do. The coaches don't work for USAG.

I appreciate the comment and know that I'm not smarter or better at what they're doing.

But I would increase feedback loops and inter camp visits, and focus on relationships with coaches above all else, whatever it takes. I would double down on judge feedback. I would insist on full transparency. I would make it my job to inform and support coaches and gymnasts in the realm of routine construction. I would not put the onus on coaches to request feedback, I would make it so readily available. Serve the coaches, serve the gymnasts. It might take another cycle to get to that point, I recognize that.

You shouldn't have to perform and get a 12 or a 10 at a high stakes competition to learn the hard way. There should be a regular feedback loop, ie "we applaud this coach's decisions because they're in all of our best interests, / we recognize that these decisions are potentially hindering this gymnast's performance."

You can only do so much, I agree, but Shilese's coach made it sound like she had to do the interpretation herself.

 

[MaryClare]

The whole approach feels a bit 97-00 quad. No ones actually telling anyone what to do

 

[tsarinajen]

If you were part of USAG, what would you do about it besides question it?

Short of changing to a fully centralized system and having Memmel coach them all herself, what exactly is USAG supposed do? Start kicking gymnasts off the National Team? Not invite them to camps until their coach's obey? There isn't much you can hold over the coaches to force them to do what you want without punishing the athletes that are just doing what their coaches told them to do. The coaches don't work for USAG.

Not advocating for a Martha approach here. However, wasn’t ‘07 nationals extra strict in deductions with some direction from her? In theory, if the judges were instructed to be harsh and take everything from everyone… wouldn’t that kind of address some of these issues? If everyone wasn’t getting credit say for a Gogean and all the applicable deductions were taken, in theory, wouldn’t a coach work to pick a different skill?

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Inject this straight into my veins. Sarah Korngold’s twitter AMA really showed what a shrewd coach she is. She seems to want to prioritize JO, but the elite world needs more coaches with this mentality.

 

[ruby]

USAG has not taken advice from intl judges or the WTC in a long time. I do hope Chellsie is a bit more sensible but I would not bet on her being that different.

 

[MaryClare]

USAG has not taken advice from intl judges or the WTC in a long time. I do hope Chellsie is a bit more sensible but I would not bet on her being that different.

Having the knowledge from being a judge is one thing, but facilitating change is a whole other ball game. Especially when the results are coming in. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next quad, post Simone and with the juniors and younger seniors not looking as sharp as they did in previous quads.

Of course there’s every possibility that they could get a shock or at least a scare in Paris. China have the ability to stack up massive scores on UB and BB

 

[Alinxz23]

Unpopular view but the USA doesn't have the incentive to make the changes to routine construction. They once again are banking on Simone and to a lesser extent Shilese. Once they retire we'll see changes.

 

[RichardL]

Unpopular view but the USA doesn't have the incentive to make the changes to routine construction. They once again are banking on Simone and to a lesser extent Shilese. Once they retire we'll see changes.

Sounds like Jones is contemplating keeping going. Without Biles and Andrade, she would be a two-time World AA champion right now.

 

[rlayt]

Next quad could be fantastic. Imagine if Shilese continued and managed to stay healthy. She could be the leader or trade 1st and 2nd with Andrade.

 

[MaryClare]

Just catching up with the NBC coverage. Sam is a terrible commentator. Just embarrassing

 

[rlayt]

it sure makes you wish for Kathy Johnson Clark.

 

[MaryClare]

it sure makes you wish for Kathy Johnson Clark.

It makes you wish for Nastia

 

[irichluck21]

I know what NBC is trying to do but I do actually miss Tim Daggett maybe not so much for his commentary but his enthusiasm.

 

[Aeris]

Of course there’s every possibility that they could get a shock or at least a scare in Paris. China have the ability to stack up massive scores on UB and BB

I would like to see that, depending on what the USA team ends up being. China has the most aesthetically pleasing floor routines for me right now and a theoretically good vault rotation of Rudi + DTT + DTY.

 

[MaryClare]

I know what NBC is trying to do but I do actually miss Tim Daggett maybe not so much for his commentary but his enthusiasm.

Tim displayed far more technical insight than either John or Sam. Right through Konnor’s beam, there’s nothing about the routine at all, they discuss LSU winning NCAAs

 

[navyblue]

Tim displayed far more technical insight than either John or Sam. Right through Konnor’s beam, there’s nothing about the routine at all, they discuss LSU winning NCAAs

Yeah and this is the perfect illustration of NBC's approach to gymnastics in a nutshell. No catering to fans of the sport, and a complete focus on creating pop-friendly storylines.

I mean, they obviously do market research and it probably turns out that actual gymnastics fans are just a drop in the bucket compared to the see of casual observers who just like run their TV all day long and happen to see this program come on. And then the goal is simply to get them to not change the channel so that they watch the commercials. :/

If we accept this as inevitable, I wish broadcasting rights could just be co-sold, maybe to a mainstream broadcaster who takes this approach, but then also a smaller or even a web-only streaming service (sure, it could be FlipNow, or just YouTube streaming with actual gymnastics expert commentators hired by USAG) that we could buy and watch instead. I mean, this is almost what's happening already right, with the "international feed" -- which showed way more gymnastics and would just need two changes
1) Add live commentators to give it the packaged appeal of a real live 'meet'
2) Change the contract with NBC to allow such a stream to happen concurrently? If the actual gymnastics fans are indeed such an insignificant bunch that we can't be catered to, why would they care about a price-gated option available to superfans?

 

[arabiandoublefront]

I know what NBC is trying to do but I do actually miss Tim Daggett maybe not so much for his commentary but his enthusiasm.

Now that he's gone, I think I liked him for the same reason why I liked Scott Hamilton for figure skating. Other commentators just don't give me the right vibes, and as a mid-Millennial, I suffer a lot from nostalgia. I can only stand to watch gymnastics and figure skating with no commentators or international commentators. I'm also super glad ecstatic I'm actually going to Paris for the Olympics.

 

[Laura722]

That's amazing you're going to be in Paris!

 

[Matilda23]

Has Simone Biles said anything about continuing gymnastics after the Paris Olympics / LA 2028? Her current coaches are leaving WCC this year yes?