US Women's training

[RedBirdie]

I have to say, seeing how Rivera and Chiles score on bars and beam is one of the things I'm most interested in seeing.

 

[QuietColours]

Not sure if this is the right place, but I don't think the TF thread is open yet so putting it here. Chellsie has spoken to Cecile about the option not to do all 4 TF events if she'd prefer not to. Choice will be Simone's.



Logic would suggest they're thinking of whether to use Hezley on bars instead.

I think it could be close on Chiles and Rivera on bars, and which one would be the 3rd (if Simone does bars) will be based on podium training and quals, weighted to quals and to each gymnast's head game. For example, does Rivera think she'd give a better beam if that's all she had to focus on, or does she work better when she has more things to work on and less time to worry about any one thing?

 

[wishfulgoddess]

I'm just glad it is out there as a possibility. Last time the pressure put on Simone was out of control. She was made to feel like she was singlehandedly responsible for the outcome of the competition. She has worked so hard on her mental health and seems to be in a great place right now. Letting her know that she is in control of her own situation and that she has options is the way to keep it that way.

 

[irichluck21]

The fact that Chellsie is offering to voluntary rest Biles is nothing short of amazing.
It's a choice, they aren't forcing 4 events and they aren't forcing her not to do 4 events.
IIRC, at 2022 Worlds, Chiles was asked if she wanted to do BB in TF after failing in TQ and the choice to do either or was left up to Chiles.

There is still a long way to go but so far Memmel and Sacramone are making all of the correct moves. Putting two high performing elite gymnasts, who competed during the Marta era was the smartest think USAG could have done. They are making all the right decisions and rebuilding a much better culture for the USA elite National Team.

Allowing Shi to sit out Nationals and then leaving up the decision for Shi to compete night 2 of Trials and now offering rest to Biles. Putting power into gymnasts' hands and giving them the ability to make decisions instead of being forced into something is very admirable.

Still a way to go and things aren't perfect. But defintely so major good changes brought forward since the "Trident" system was initiated.

 

[irichluck21]

It also says not compete all 4 events, but doesn't say do 3 events. So I wonder if Biles could choose not to do say 2 events in TFs?

I think that is one of the reasons Hezly was taken is she can do all 4 events in TF if needed. At least Sacramone mentioned that in the Gymcastic interview. We already know the other four are capable of competing on any event in team finals. Carey's bars not so much, but they are usable in a pinch AND Carey did do beam in TF in 2022.

 

[QuietColours]

Where Chellsie and Alicia have the authority to make decisions, they seem to make good ones. They just need to figure out how to get them the authority to overrule when the older coaches push back on modernization.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

It also says not compete all 4 events, but doesn't say do 3 events. So I wonder if Biles could choose not to do say 2 events in TFs?

I think that is one of the reasons Hezly was taken is she can do all 4 events in TF if needed. At least Sacramone mentioned that in the Gymcastic interview. We already know the other four are capable of competing on any event in team finals. Carey's bars not so much, but they are usable in a pinch AND Carey did do beam in TF in 2022.

The choice part feels huge, doesn't it? And the openness about it. Resting Simone on bars isn't new, and in 2015 Marta arguably went to greater lengths to do it than the US would be doing here. But talking to the athletes about it, and spelling that out to the world, it's such a change in approach.

I think it's part of the same general/vibe approach as them not seeming to want to bench anyone in TFs. Sitting someone out isn't an inherently bad thing in itself, as long as the reasons are valid. But then Alicia and Chellsie were both there in 06.

 

[RedBirdie]

Chellsie's full remarks regarding Simone of TF:

 

[irichluck21]

@ArnoldRimmer
I am not sure that it was Marta that decided to put Nichols in 2015 TF to rest Biles. Obviously Kocian and Douglas were going to be there and likely Dowell would have been had she not fallen in TQ.
Biles would have been next to go having done it in TQ.

According to Nichols' book, she and her family think they allowed Nichols to do UB in TF to placate her after being pulled in TQ. She thinks she was pulled from trying to qualify to th AA finals by USAG for reporting Nassar.

But that is her perspective.

She could have been pulled from AA so that Raisman could qualify instead? Raisman was a favorite of Marta. So who knows what exactly occured.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

@ArnoldRimmer
I am not sure that it was Marta that decided to put Nichols in 2015 TF to rest Biles. Obviously Kocian and Douglas were going to be there and likely Dowell would have been had she not fallen in TQ.
Biles would have been next to go having done it in TQ.

According to Nichols' book, she and her family think they allowed Nichols to do UB in TF to placate her after being pulled in TQ. She thinks she was pulled from trying to qualify to th AA finals by USAG for reporting Nassar.

But that is her perspective.

While I've a lot of respect for Maggie, I don't necessarily agree with her perspectives on team selection and lineup issues.

 

[tempest]

Maggie was completely robbed of an AA chance in 15... Marta's love of Aly's AA was baffling

 

[irichluck21]

It was still baffling that Marta put in Nichols instead of Biles. But Biles didn't compete TF UB in 2014 either (Kocian, Locklear, Ross).

 

[tempest]

It was surprising that Marta gave Kocian another chance in TF in 14 after messing up in TQ

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Maggie was completely robbed of an AA chance in 15... Marta's love of Aly's AA was baffling

I think it made sense in the context of how Marta selected her teams. She left things as late as possible to settle, and then Aly had a better podium training than Maggie.

Obviously there are questions about whether this was the best way to choose a team. Plus some people think Maggie should've had an AA spot as of right due to being 2nd at Nats and/or that Aly shouldn't have had any more AA chances after 2012. But knowing what we do about Marta, and her stance on those points, what she did in 2015 fits with that. It might have been wrong but the thought process is obvious.

@irichluck21 I think 2014 is different because Simone genuinely was the 4th best at bars that year. And the 5th in prelims. There was no reason to use her.

 

[tempest]

I think it made sense in the context of how Marta selected her teams. She left things as late as possible to settle, and then Aly had a better podium training than Maggie.

Understood but how often does someone do AA in TF yet did not do it in TQ? I think that was the weird part especially when you add in Maggie's TF UB, She would have beaten Gabby by a lot

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

It was surprising that Marta gave Kocian another chance in TF in 14 after messing up in TQ

She did still finish top 3 in qualification, which might have had something to do with it. Becomes a more complicated question if Simone had hit. As it was, the top 3 on each event were the same as the top 3 on paper.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Understood but how often does someone do AA in TF yet did not do it in TQ? I think that was the weird part

Yeah, very much so. I think it was only once or twice Marta used someone in TFs when they hadn't done the event in qualifying. That's what I meant when I said the US have gone to greater lengths before than just using Hezley this time would probably represent.

 

[RichardL]

I just caught up with podium training videos, and the routine Chiles showed on bars is the best she's ever done. She's cleaned up so many of the details and I wouldn't be surprised to see her get a very high E score. I think Rivera will only be used on beam in TF.

 

[irichluck21]

It depends if Biles wants to take a break. Rivera would then do bars in TF as well.
The choiceis hers, per Memmel.

 

[Laura722]

What if Rivera falls on beam? I hope she doesn't, but you never know. I'd like to see Simone take a break and not do UB, but I'm unsure how she will feel.