The Best of Each Event

[falcon9]

Though the parameters of what makes somebody the best of the event is its own discussion.

This is a fun discussion to read through… it’s just really hard to think of an all time best. It’s more of an “any given Sunday” type thing for me. The “best” in my mind always comes down to a certain technique or style that I like to watch… and a day… a specific time.

Now if the title would have said… “Who is the GOAT / Michael Jordan of WAG?”… then that’s Simone… all day long. She can beat anyone and everyone all day long. I truly believe that Simone could beat everyone at vault… beam… and floor if they were competing against her at her peak. Bars… not sure… I think Simone’s feet look flexed a lot and I am not a fan of her body line… but I don’t think she really always takes deductions for those things. Simone still has the skills to throw down on bars.

As far as the McKayla Maroney vs. Simone vault discussion. This comes down to a specific technique for me again. Simone has crazy vaulting ability. McKayla has a technique that many told me (including national staff) what not acceptable in women’s gymnastics. She rotates her fingers / hands out to increase the extension of her body when hitting the table. It’s just something that I will always remember… someone being the best with a technique that I was told was wrong. Again… I just have a specific connection to that technique so I think it’s cool.

 

[RedBirdie]

Maroney’s technique might be “wrong” in WAG, but it’s strictly an aesthetic preference. What Maroney did on vault is what most MAG who do Yurchenko entries do. if anything, we should all be teaching our athletes to do Yurchenos with rotating hands outward, because it does generate so much more power.

Really got to disagree that Simone should be anywhere near the discussion of greatest beam workers of all time. Her beam was deeply lacking. She managed to rack up a high D score with a huge dismount combo, but her on-beam work? Adequate, but nothing special. To me, she never showed mastery of the event.

 

[falcon9]

if anything, we should all be teaching our athletes to do Yurchenos with rotating hands outward, because it does generate so much more power.

Not sure I would agree with this… I would say it depends on the athlete and how their shoulders move… thoracic mobility… and wrist flexibility. Teaching this at a young age is also much riskier as far as injuries go.

Really got to disagree that Simone should be anywhere near the discussion of greatest beam workers of all time. Her beam was deeply lacking. She managed to rack up a high D score with a huge dismount combo, but her on-beam work? Adequate, but nothing special. To me, she never showed mastery of the event.

Agreed… I just don’t think Simone ever hit her peak on beam as she never really had to… she could just do “good enough” and then throw a giant dismount on the end like you said. I never put my “best” beam worker down… not really sure who that would be in my mind… it would not be Simone though… I like old beam better.

I really do believe that Simone could “beat” everyone in the imaginary world where she was still in her peak and putting the hammer down… I think she would find a way. In other words… if I had to pick an athlete to coach up against all others on beam… I would pick Simone as I believe there is still more potential there. I believe she is the GOAT… however… I would not actually pick her as the “best” on any event for the purposes of my opinion as my opinion of the “best” many times looks more at certain techniques than highest scores possible.

 

[rlayt]

Pavlova belongs on the list for consideration of best on beam. Just the quality of her movement.

You can’t talk best on vault without including Produnova.

Simone is my GOAT. She’s the game-changer.

 

[falcon9]

Pavlova belongs on the list for consideration of best on beam. Just the quality of her movement.

She did some unique stuff very well too.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

She was also pretty inconsistent on the event for a lot of her career. Granted, she competed in multiple finals with like a 50% hit rate, so grabbing the beam instead of completely tanking looked like big match temperament in comparison. But given that her results and ability relative to the competition are part of her case for inclusion here, I think that matters. In a way that it doesn’t for, say, Yang Bo.

 

[Hatsumomo]

Simone is a curious case because her bars and beam are so weak compared to what one would expect from somebody who at one point was 5 points ahead of the silver AA medalist and pushing the envelope of difficulty. Her UB/BB is very “Just get through it” vs her VT/FX which is “Let me show you what I can do.” It’s that those who are very strong on UB/BB tend to be rather anemic on VT/FX and/or be wildly inconsistent. Or you have Jade Carey who can go toe-to-toe with Simone on VT/FX (Jade’s lifeless performance on FX notwithstanding), but even her BB/UB lags behind.

As it was, a Sunisa Lee coming off an Achilles’ injury, the stress of her father’s accident and disability, and the pandemic hindering training still was able to nip at Simone’s heels because she’s adequate on VT/FX and very strong on BB/UB.

I just imagine what an AA competition with healthy at-peak Simone, Sunisa, and Rebeca Andrade (with controlled landings) would look like.

 

[MaryClare]

Simone has never looked comfortable on beam to me

 

[Hatsumomo]

IIRC, she’s said that she’s afraid of beam.

 

[MaryClare]

I thought it was bars she was afraid of and that’s why she was pleased to be working with Laurent?

 

[Hatsumomo]

You could be completely correct. I know she’s said she has a fear of one of those events, but I was leaning towards beam.

 

[onodian]

Pavlova is a good fit for me for best beam worker. She does good difficult acro, great leaps, good dismount, is consistently f-ed by the code, which frankly mostly means you’re doing something right.

btw I was looking at this:



is this Tsuk 2 1/2 a fake? Is this Carey? I don’t understand.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I always thought Simone’s sureness and rhythm on beam were strengths of hers, though again that’s relative to the competition when nearly everyone she competed against had a crap hit rate on beam and knew it. The major errors were generally on individual elements that were badly chosen, rather than stemming from a weakness on the event itself iyswim.

But I really don’t see how she’s anywhere near the top of the list here. The only genuinely brilliant aspect of her beam is the double double.

 

[MaryClare]

In other words, the bit that makes her fantastic, doesn’t happen on the beam

 

[RichardL]

Still, to have her medal haul on the event is absolutely incredible. No one matches her, right? Three world titles, two minor Worlds EF medals, and two Olympic medals?

 

[rlayt]

Comparing earlier gymnasts to current gymnasts on an event where the equipment that has changed so much is like apples and oranges. How do you come up with criteria that would even the field between beamers like Nadia and Ponor? Or bar workers like Janz and Tweddle?

 

[onodian]

Miller has a world title, then olympic gold and silver. It doesn’t compare in terms of numbers, but I feel it’s kind of up there. Funny that Shannon didn’t win more medals at worlds, I thought for sure she’d have a couple of beam medals.

ETA: she also has goodwill games 94 gold, which I feel was a legit competition when we see the actual roster, in case that counts.

 

[JaJa]

You can’t talk best on vault without including Produnova.

Simone is my GOAT. She’s the game-changer.

yes. yes. yes.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I think so, but then she had the advantage of competing in an era with a worlds or Olympics every year so that makes a difference too.

 

[RichardL]

Are you referring to Miller or Biles? Both had an EF worlds every year of their senior careers. The mid-quad Worlds were only eliminated after Miller retired, and then were reinstated before Biles’ senior career.