Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[MaryClare]

Once you see the details, much of the sanctions are pointless

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...nths-to-potentially-sanction-roman-abramovich

 

[JaJa]

so what is the difference to put men on the ground (or in the air)?

It’s a huge difference. It ceases to be a regional conflict the minute our troops put boots on the ground. We will not let Putin draw us into WWIII or nuclear confrontation.

 

[MaryClare]

Then you have to accept that your ability to protect Ukraine will be minimal. There is no appetite for it, just like how a blind eye is turned to China

 

[JaJa]

No. I think we are going to bring Putin down. It will just take time and he will inflict a lot of pain and severe damage in Ukraine before going. But the world order is changing before all of our eyes.

 

[MaryClare]

The only people who can bring him down are his generals. It is also highly likely there would be a military government initially. If you saw who will replace him…

 

[JaJa]

I don’t think anyone thinks any of the West’s moves will turn Russia into a liberal western style democracy. And the Russian people are going to sadly pay a great price for Putin’s behavior. But the priority now for the West is containing Russian and also Chinese aggression. And we are going to do that. I mean we already have. I am sure any ideas Putin had about Moldova or any other former Soviet Union state are out the window. And they are breathing a sigh of relief in Taiwan I imagine. The world order is truly changing.

 

[MaryClare]

Until the west stands up to China, little will change. Its just one bad guy for another. China are harder to deal with than Russia. Chinese state entities are far more integrated in a variety of sectors in the west, all whilst having a far more brutal regime with a more sophisticated propaganda engine.

 

[onodian]

That’s not going to happen anytime soon. The West was too short-sighted believing market forces would eventually turn China into some version of South Korea and now it’s too late. While i believe China will very carefully look at the sanctions while considering their line of action in Taiwan, i do not think that will be enough to potentially deter term if the moment comes, also because there is no way the West is imposing these kinds of sanctions on China. It’s all too entangled at this point.

 

[MaryClare]

Exactly. And China is far richer, influential and self sufficient than Russia. Sanctions are even less of a deterrent for China.

 

[onodian]

I mean they’re also not impervious to economic distress, but that will be economic war. Nobody stands to gain from that

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

TBF part of that is because the UK government are shitting themselves over the amount of Russian money in the Brexit campaign and Tory party coffers being more closely examined, and would much prefer all this to go away. The level of institutional capture here is high.

 

[MaryClare]

China has far more global leverage. So Apple decided not to export products to Russia, we can’t counter that, even people in Russia don’t want Russian tech. But China, they could just stop making apple products if sanctions were ever put on them

 

[MaryClare]

There is Russian money right across UK politics. Literally everything from Brexit to anti fracking and XR to Scottish independence.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Certainly, but naturally Boris Johnson’s main concerns are his own party and the Brexit campaign that he built his premiership on.

 

[Sasha]

Russia is funding anti-fracking campaigns? God that makes my head hurt.

 

[MaryClare]

Yes.

Russia 'secretly working with environmentalists to oppose fracking'

Nato chief, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, says Moscow mounting disinformation campaign to maintain reliance on Russian gas

www.theguardian.com

 

[JaJa]

Russia is funding anti-fracking campaigns? God that makes my head hurt.

You are surprised?

 

[Sasha]

It’s not something I’d ever actively considered tbh.

 

[onodian]

It’s not something I’d ever actively considered tbh

To be fair we hardly had time to discuss this, what with all the Wolf turn downgrading we had to do

 

[JaJa]

To be fair we hardly had time to discuss this, what with all the Wolf turn downgrading we had to do

You are one of the funniest people ever.