FIG ends ban on Russia and Belarus gymnasts (effective January 1, 2024)

[irichluck21]

It just means Russia can't qualify an AAer through 2024 Euros.

 

[Rich]

It just means Russia can't qualify an AAer through 2024 Euros.

How likely are they to even go for world cups. Aren't deadlines approaching for application as a neutral athelete and are not most comps in Europe? I feel the door is closing very fast for Paris

 

[Passion]

The Paris asterisk* Olympics.

 

[JDB]

The Paris asterisk* Olympics.

Russia participating in four Olympics while being WADA noncompliant and occupying Ukrainian territory puts an asterisk over those Olympics. And the Sochi Olympics before them has the biggest asterisk of all.

 

[irichluck21]

Russia participating in four Olympics while being WADA noncompliant and occupying Ukrainian territory puts an asterisk over those Olympics. And the Sochi Olympics before them has the biggest asterisk of all.

 

[Passion]

The reigning Olympic champions not being in Paris puts the same asterisk on every medal that the 1984 Games has.

You can add asterisks to as many other Games as you want lol it doesn’t change the situation in Paris.

 

[irichluck21]

You could also add an asterisk to "reigning Olympic champions" given Simone's twisties and withdrawl from team finals.

 

[JDB]

Russia competing in the Tokyo team event was such a joke and emblematic of the IOC's dysfunction. The IOC and FIG are finally doing something right this time. And I say that as someone who's sad certain Russian & Belarusian gymnasts won't be competing in Paris.

 

[Passion]

None of these arguments change the impact current Russian gymnasts would have on the medals won in Paris if allowed to compete. Hence the asterisk.

I wouldn’t put an asterisk on Biles in Tokyo because being able to actually do gymnastics is part of gymnastics. Now if the entire US team wasn’t able to compete because they all tested positive for Covid the second they landed in Japan, that’s an asterisk. That’s not an inability to compete because of something gymnastics related, that’s an outside force preventing you from competing (the rule of no one with Covid being allowed to enter the arena.)

The Russian gymnasts missing Paris is an outside force preventing them from competing. They aren’t injured, the gymnasts didn’t test positive for anything, they are ready and able and among the best in the World. But they won’t be in Paris because of reasons that have nothing to do with them or their capability to perform gymnastics.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

And those reasons are that their country violated the Olympic charter.

 

[MaryClare]

None of these arguments change the impact current Russian gymnasts would have on the medals won in Paris if allowed to compete. Hence the asterisk.

I wouldn’t put an asterisk on Biles in Tokyo because being able to actually do gymnastics is part of gymnastics. Now if the entire US team wasn’t able to compete because they all tested positive for Covid the second they landed in Japan, that’s an asterisk. That’s not an inability to compete because of something gymnastics related, that’s an outside force preventing you from competing (the rule of no one with Covid being allowed to enter the arena.)

The Russian gymnasts missing Paris is an outside force preventing them from competing. They aren’t injured, the gymnasts didn’t test positive for anything, they are ready and able and among the best in the World. But they won’t be in Paris because of reasons that have nothing to do with them or their capability to perform gymnastics.

I agree completely.

It is especially harsh on Belarusian athletes.

 

[Rich]

I read on reddit
Russia aren't banned for reasons of morality, not really. They're banned because they attacked Ukraine on 24th February 2022, between the closing of the Winter Olympics and the beginning of the Paralympics, thereby violating the Olympic Truce which stipulates that everyone has to be peaceful from one week before the opening ceremony of the Olympics until one week after the closing ceremony of the Paralympics. They're also the only nation to have ever violated the Olympic Truce, and they've done so three times.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

They're also the only nation to have ever violated the Olympic Truce, and they've done so three times.

Rich, you don't honestly believe Russia is the only nation to have ever violated the Olympic Truce, do you? The USA actually refused to sign the Truce in 2022, and was engaged in war with Iraq during the Athens Games, just one of the many undeclared wars the US has perpetuated while sending athletes to compete at the Games. Russia is, by no means, unique in this regard.

 

[Denn]

I had not heard that before @Rich . Interesting — thanks for sharing.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

And this should not be forgot:

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-executive-board-suspends-russian-olympic-committee-with-immediate-effect

"The unilateral decision taken by the Russian Olympic Committee on 5 October 2023 to include, as its members, the regional sports organisations which are under the authority of the National Olympic Committee (NOC) of Ukraine (namely Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia) constitutes a breach of the Olympic Charter because it violates the territorial integrity of the NOC of Ukraine, as recognised by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) in accordance with the Olympic Charter."

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

And this should not be forgot:

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-executive-board-suspends-russian-olympic-committee-with-immediate-effect

"The unilateral decision taken by the Russian Olympic Committee on 5 October 2023 to include, as its members, the regional sports organisations which are under the authority of the National Olympic Committee (NOC) of Ukraine (namely Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia) constitutes a breach of the Olympic Charter because it violates the territorial integrity of the NOC of Ukraine, as recognised by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) in accordance with the Olympic Charter."

Yeah, that's a piece of Olympic specific fuckery. It actually makes a lot of sense for the IOC to have a problem with it in a way they haven't with behaviour that doesn't so directly relate to their turf.

 

[Passion]

And those reasons are that their country violated the Olympic charter.

And this should not be forgot:

What do these things have to do with the medals Russia would have won if present at the Games?

If USA invaded Canada tomorrow and was subsequently banned from competing in Paris, does that suddenly mean American gymnasts weren't going to win any medals if they had been allowed to compete? Obviously it would have an impact on the results. Similarly the Russian ban will have an impact on the results. That puts an asterisk on the Olympics.

*1980 was not a fully attended Olympics.
*1984 was not a fully attended Olympics.
*2024 will not be a fully attended Olympics.

These are asterisks. The medals won in Paris will not be medals won in a fully attended Olympics. We will never know what the results would have been if Russia was not banned. We will only know that the results may have been different. So there is an asterisk noting that, because the reasons for their absence are not related to the sport.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

What do these things have to do with the medals Russia would have won if present at the Games?

If USA invaded Canada tomorrow and was subsequently banned from competing in Paris, does that suddenly mean American gymnasts weren't going to win any medals if they had been allowed to compete? Obviously it would have an impact on the results. Similarly the Russian ban will have an impact on the results. That puts an asterisk on the Olympics.

*1980 was not a fully attended Olympics.
*1984 was not a fully attended Olympics.
*2024 will not be a fully attended Olympics.

These are asterisks. The medals won in Paris will not be medals won in a fully attended Olympics. We will never know what the results would have been if Russia was not banned. We will only know that the results may have been different. So there is an asterisk noting that, because the reasons for their absence are not related to the sport.

Does that mean that all the Athletics competitions that the ROC has been banned from for years also should have an asterisk?

 

[Passion]

Does that mean that all the Athletics competitions that the ROC has been banned from for years also should have an asterisk?

I have no idea, I don’t follow Athletics.

What are they banned for there? The same reasons as gymnastics? Are they a country that would win medals in that sport? Then sure, asterisk.

Are they banned for a drug thing? Then no asterisk. If the drugs impact performance in the sport, and the ban is due to performance in the sport being affected, then the ban is sport-related and therefore their absence from competition is sport-related.

 

[JDB]

We're running into the inherent problems with this Russia-centric idea of legitimacy. Russian gymnasts are using PEDs for recovery while Russia is WADA noncompliant. And that set the stage for the Tokyo Olympics. So if World Athletics banning Russian participation was fair, then the FIG allowing it is suspect.

And Russia being banned from competitions over the invasion arguably is sport related. That's Russia's fault and not the IOC's.