Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[onodian]

This is all shaping up to be cold war 2.0 Interesting to see where India lands in all of this. And of course the longer this rages on the more cracks you will see in the EU and maybe as a result nato. But granted, right now it looks as solid as ever

 

[MaryClare]

It will be interesting to see what happens when Poland, and Ukrainia’s other western neighbours (you know, the nice ones) don’t get the funding they need to deal with all the people fleeing

 

[JaJa]

Long term one of the key issues will be energy of course. EU dependency on natural gas and crude oil from Russia clearly a problem. There are ways of dealing with it but it will take rethinking. U.S. could increase its capacity for importing natural gas, and gas can also come from Qatar, Nigeria, other places. Lets see what happens . . . . . . .

 

[MaryClare]

Article about surge in demand for BBC news in Russia. The idea that we only have access to state controlled media is false

Millions of Russians turn to BBC News

People in Russia are turning to BBC News in their millions for factual independent information about the war in Ukraine, new figures show.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Doug1233]

The problem now is the knee jerk reaction with sanctions

Are you suggesting that sanctions against Russia are inappropriate?

Reports today of cluster bombs and vacuum bombs.

 

[onodian]

Article about surge in demand for BBC news in Russia. The idea that we only have access to state controlled media is false

but do you think it could get to the point where Russian people would oppose this war openly? It’s an actual question, I’m not being catty.

 

[JaJa]

Are you suggesting that sanctions against Russia are inappropriate?

The only problem with the sanctions is they have not gone far enough. We need to sanction their oil and natural gas industry. A little economic thermobaric bomb sent Putin’s way. Will that increase prices even in the U.S.? Yeah. Will it rattle the markets? yes. But its the least we can do as Ukranian civilians put their lives on the line to fend off the Russian army.

 

[onodian]

The only problem with the sanctions is they have not gone far enough.

Agreed, but I must say, it’s mostly German ties to the Russian economy that have kept this on the low end, I think. This seems to be changing rapidly too, tho.

 

[JaJa]

well yeah, Germany and Italy have the most to lose because they have the greatest degree of dependency on Russian natural gas. But the U.S. is worried about the markets and rising prices here. No one is willing to do it yet.

 

[MaryClare]

The sanctions are not clever, nor appropriately targeted. They are for show, so that governments can be seen to take a hard line against Russia, without having to make any economic sacrifices.

In general, I don’t think sanctions work short term. Everyone here is very angry and fed up, both with what’s going on in Ukraine, and the effects from the sanctions. As a result, we have now domestic sanctions too and many people including myself have had accounts frozen.

If anyone is interested to chat more about this, can message me (WhatsApp, telegram) on English phone- 44772976 1755.

 

[JaJa]

In general, I don’t think sanctions work short term

Everyone understands they do not work short term. They will not stop the invasion or the outcome of the invasion. Thats not the intent though.

 

[MaryClare]

Anecdotally, the majority of people, even those who want Ukraine to join Russia, or some sort of resurrection of the Soviet Union, are appalled by the actions taken. Most of us see Ukraine as family, as so many of us do have family links there. Far more so than any other ex Soviet country.

But, as far as opposing openly, that would only happen if the government and police completely lose control and the country becomes ungovernable. Because right now they are arresting kids at the demonstrations.

 

[onodian]

If anyone is interested to chat more about this

I think I need to talk LESS about this right now, but thx for sharing.

 

[rlayt]

People with few weapons that won’t lead to nuclear war can express a moral viewpoint and put it into action with sanctions, boycotts etc and it not be merely virtue signaling. It isn’t virtue signaling if you truly believe in what you are doing and it’s the right thing to do. Santions are a actions taken that are necessary when there is nothing else available to be done. So much better than burying your head in the sand and pretending there’s nothing to be done.

Let’s see examples of “appropriate” or better targeted sanctions with real teeth MC. What would work? I don’t use WhatsApp. I hope you don’t suffer for what your government is doing but I imagine Ukraine could tell us all something about suffering.

 

[Doug1233]

Everyone here is very angry and fed up, both with … the effects from the sanctions

Isn’t this the point of the sanctions?

 

[Doug1233]

Has anyone listened to Gymcastics “Russian Invasion Bunker Edition”……?!


Title is… interesting.

 

[MaryClare]

But we can’t remove the government, no matter how angry we are or how hard things become. And in the case of this government, it plays exactly to the idea that the west want to punish or sabotage us which will mitigate much of the anger towards Putin

 

[Doug1233]

Hence the sanctions on the Oligarchs and Military Generals, no?

 

[MaryClare]

The majority of whom are so wealthy, it’s little more than an inconvenience. And they’ve little motivation to oust Putin as a result- the damage has been done and won’t be reversed even if sanctions are lifted.

Instead it is ordinary people who face economic hardship

 

[JaJa]

Listen, we understand that the Russian government is far too repressive to tolerate or accommodate any kind of popular uprising. And we know that protestors are being arrested. Putin is clearly losing some of the popular support he built up over the years. He may not care all that much about that at this point and by itself it may not be a big threat to him. But MUCH more to the point the Russian economic elite are going to feel the sanctions deeply and I believe he is making serious enemies with some powerful oligarchs who do NOT want to pay the economic price that they will pay for his insane invasion of Ukraine. Of course the rich oligarchs are being impacted. They are the target.
Just wait as their assets are seized and they lose their luxury yachts in the mediterranean, their mansions overseas, their private jets,their kids place in private schools overseas. The West is betting on the possibility of a palace coup or an oligarchic revolt and the time may be coming very soon when not only the general population but the military, economic and security elites understand that they need to get rid of him. He miscalculated this whole thing and I do believe he is going down.