Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[tsarinajen]

Since Ovechkin’s kids were born in the states, they’re US citizens. Are they granted Russian citizenship as well? I’m just wondering if it’s a complicated process. Khorkina had her kid in the US too.

 

[tsarinajen]

The Valieva fiasco may not end this year anyway as we’re all expecting some side to appeal the decision.

If they miss Worlds this season, as expected, they’re essentially out two years (two World Championships). How long does the ISU envision this punishment? I’m just asking hypothetically.

As for Valieva, even if she had taken that medication intentionally, would her suspension have been more than two years? And that’s not factoring in the protected person status.

 

[makam]

As for Valieva, even if she had taken that medication intentionally, would her suspension have been more than two years? And that’s not factoring in the protected person status.

Hard to say. They’ve handed out 4 year bans and lifetime bans before. I don’t believe those would be in play here but with the positive on top of the already precarious position of Russia for previous issues, at some point they have to bring the hammer down or it is just theater. It could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back or they could go back to business as usual, nothin’ to see here.

 

[MaryClare]

Why would you not want your children to have dual US and Russian citizenship?

@tsarinajen generally if one of your parents is a Russian National you are considered to be too. The best known example in artistic sports being Diana Davis

 

[Denn]

The only reason for any of the bans (sports, bank accounts, travel, oil, property seizures, etc.) was to put pressure on Russia to withdraw and end the war immediately, if not economically force them to.

I was asking Mary Clare her personal view. And, yes, that’s by far the most common reason for most bans of Russia, but specific organizations may have other (perhaps additional) rationale.

 

[JDB]

Random news updates:

Ukraine’s boycotting the European Gymnastics Congress

Internal conflict in Ukraine’s Olympic committee tangentially related to the war

Thomas Bach’s new year’s message He outlines plans for Russians to compete as independent athletes.

 

[rlayt]

At first I thought Bach’s message was naive then I realized he’s just using those words to get more (Russian) athletes into the games. I’m sure there’s more than one hidden agenda behind it too.

Putin can suck my____. While I do feel for the athletes who are forced into public displays that look like support for his war I still think there should be a ban because Putin will use it to further support at home for his war.

 

[JDB]

I’ll wait for Thomas Bach to announce specifics before I judge. Allowing Russians who live and train abroad to compete in Paris would be appropriate. But Russia sending a 300 person delegation like in Tokyo would be bad.

 

[MaryClare]

How would that work in practice. Say for instance that Dalaloyan says he’s living in Italy and training with the Italian club he competed for earlier this year. How are the FIG or the IOC going to prove or disprove that?

 

[makam]

I guess if they are in the drug testing pool, they have to give their locations weekly, right?

 

[Doug1233]

How are the FIG or the IOC going to prove or disprove that?

I assume that the Italian Federation wouldn’t lie for a Russian gymnast and risk themselves getting in trouble with the FIG. What would be in it for them?

Verifying passport stamps would be pretty easy. You can’t go from Russia into Italy (and presumably out again) without a stamp in your passport. He’s not an Italian citizen.

 

[MaryClare]

It wouldn’t have anything to do with the Italian federation. They can’t expect other federations to take responsibility for the verification of this. It would have to be directly with the FIG or IOC. This isn’t some city championship.

There’s nothing to stop (beyond visa requirements) any country from setting up a national training centre in another country.

 

[JDB]

I had tennis players in mind when I made my previous comment. They’ve been competing without interruption and most of them live abroad. I predict we’ll see some Russian tennis players competing as independent athletes in Paris. I don’t think any Russian gymnasts will be allowed to compete in the next Olympics.

 

[Doug1233]

There’s nothing to stop (beyond visa requirements) any country from setting up a national training centre in another country.

Well, visa requirements are a big enough hurdle to make this a completely moot impossibility.

 

[MaryClare]

To the EU and other western nations, yes. But many countries still have no visa requirements for Russian nationals.

 

[irichluck21]

I had tennis players in mind when I made my previous comment. They’ve been competing without interruption and most of them live abroad. I predict we’ll see some Russian tennis players competing as independent athletes in Paris. I don’t think any Russian gymnasts will be allowed to compete in the next Olympics.

If anyone from Russia competes at the Olympics, they have to denounce their citizenship and apply as refugee athlete. They also have to be sponsored by another IOC country.
There is specific criteria and a procedure to go through to obtain this status.

You cannot just compete at the Olympics as a refugee because you state you are.
I don’t think Russian athletes are going to denounce their citizenship just to compete at the Olympics.

Just ban Russia completely. This is a black and white situation and no need to have any gray areas.
The Russian athletes are unfortunately barring the consequences of their dictator. But, that is what happens.

 

[JDB]

Refugee athletes are not the only independent athletes at the Olympics. Two of these independent athletes from London 2012 were not refugees:

If some Russian tennis players are allowed to compete as independent athletes in Paris, we’ll hear about it later this year. But otherwise I doubt we’ll see Russians in any other sports. And it wouldn’t be appropriate.

On a side note, I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to share that gif.

 

[irichluck21]

I guess Russian athletes could petition to compete as independent, as independent athletes are from countries that are suspended by IOC.

I just don’t see that happening. Also there were no independent athletes in 2020 or 2022.

In 2012 the independent athletes came from Netherland Antilles, which had dissolved in 2010 and South Sudan, which didn’t have an Olympic Committee formed yet.

Not sure that Russia and Belarus would qualify as independents since Russia and Belarus are banned due to war.
Could be wrong here, but I doubt it would/will happen.

 

[JDB]

Thomas Bach and the USOPC president are on record supporting Russians and Belarusians competing as independent athletes in Paris. It’s gonna happen; it’s just a matter of who will be allowed to participate.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/usa-support-olympic-move-include-russians-paris-2024-11670810134?st=czgrg4y3uda1bmv&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

[Gymfan93]

Yep- the relevant sports federations would have to allow them to compete in the qualifying events.
It looks like the absolute deadline for participation in Euros is March 21st (drawing of lots happens then)