Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[Doug1233]

If not genocide, what is the word for someone who does not recognise the existence of a nation?

What would we call someone who did not recognise the state of Israel?

 

[JaJa]

What would we call someone who did not recognise the state of Israel?

These days you would call them Amnesty International.

Did you see their latest report on Israel?

Look, plenty of people do not recognize the legitimacy of the State of Israel. IMO they are anti-semites and a bunch of other unsavory things. But they are not committing genocide or ethnic cleansing just because they do not accept that the Jewish people have the right to self determination. Would they do so given half a chance? Perhaps.

 

[MaryClare]

I don’t know, but it looks a lot like a false equivalence, Douglas.

Not recognising a state is completely different to genocide. Plenty of countries refuse to recognise the legitimacy of their neighbours or parts of their own country.

 

[MaryClare]

Thanks Livi! Even prior to recent events, I’m used to people having misconceptions and lack of knowledge when it comes to Russia. The difference is that if you were wrong about another country, and someone from that country explained why it was incorrect, most people would believe them, but when it comes to Russia I am often accused of being brainwashed!

 

[MaryClare]

With respect, this is exactly what I mean. And it’s not the first time you’ve said something about Russia that’s frankly bizarre, I can’t even work out the chain of logic.

Putin is LITERALLY A SOVIET COMMUNIST. So if Americans think that, then they at least have that right. That’s the whole problem, that Putin wants to resurrect the Soviet Union.

 

[Denn]

FYI…

I am 99% sure that MaryClare is not the only Russian in this thread. She may be the only one living in Russia currently.

I am 100% sure that Doug1233’s name is not “Douglas”.

 

[Livi]

No maybe not. But certainly the most frequent poster and also the only one speaking openly about living in Russia atm.

 

[JDB]

Sorry about that. I deleted some comments that were low quality.

 

[Doug1233]

Not recognising a state is completely different to genocide

Not recognising a state, and bombing children trying to flee, comes closer.

 

[MaryClare]

But unfortunately that happens in many wars. Which wars aren’t genocide then?

Putin is bombing Russians too. The worst hit places are Russian majority cities like Kharkov and Mariupol. The mayors of both these cities were pro Putin, I very much doubt they still are.

 

[JaJa]

Not recognising a state, and bombing children trying to flee, comes closer.

No it does not. It’s brutal behavior, but not ethnic cleansing. A lot of people get killed in war. That does not mean every war is a case of ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing has a very specific meaning.

 

[Doug1233]

I mean, I don’t think I’ve said it was. I’ve merely asked questions where you might have inferred that’s what I meant. Maybe I have, I can’t be bothered to check. It’s all just so awful and the constant whataboutism, and the “I don’t agree with Putin but…” points of view, just get tiring after a while.

 

[Ginger]

Jaja, are you suggesting that Putin would spare Ukrainians just because they are fellow Slavic nation?
It is actually just the opposite.
Russians hate when someone stands up to their bullying, and they hate it even more when another Slavic nation dares to stand up to them.
Look up what Stalin did to Ukrainians in 1932-33.
Or to Poles. Katyn. Warsaw Uprising. Not to mention that Russians actually attacked Poland side by side with Hitler.
And yes I know it was Soviet Union back then, not Russia, and I also know that Jughashvili was Georgian, not Russian.
But Soviet Union was actually Russia that swallowed the other countries into union more or less against their will.
I am born and raised Czech, so Slav too. My native country was occupied by Russians for 21 years. Yes, I know, Soviet Union. But we always called them Russians. And, while we don’t have as long and bitter history with Russia as Poland and Ukraine (and many other countries) do, it was still enough. Never more.

 

[JaJa]

No,not at all. I am not saying that at all. I mean obviously not! My only point in this latest argument is that Putin is not trying to ethnically cleanse Ukrainians, he is trying to erase 1991 and reconstitute the Soviet Union. Clearly he is infuriated by the fact that Ukraine is a separate sovereign nation . To him it is just part of “his” Russian Empire. My point about Ukrainians being Slavs was only that this is not about ethnic cleansing. But of course he will not hesitate to kill (or worse) fellowSlavs who dare stand up to him.

 

[JaJa]

“I don’t agree with Putin but…” points of view

I have not seen anyone, MC included, expressing that kind of perspective on this thread. I for sure have not. I’m the one calling for a no fly zone and stronger military aid to Ukraine and stronger economic sanctions for Putin.

 

[MaryClare]

Who are the non Russians defending Putin here? (Or anyone defending him?!)

 

[JDB]

Dina and Arina Averina are taking an indefinite hiatus from training. There’s nothing else for them to do after nationals concluded. They were forced into competing post 2021 worlds because of whatever stuff Irina Viner-Usmanova is up to this time. So this is a much needed break/retirement for them. So the ban on Russian athletes helped the well being of two gymnasts.

 

[Livi]

In that light:

 

[Doug1233]

Who’s the girl?

 

[Livi]

One of the Averina sisters (RG). The other one is behind her