Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

I don’t hear a lot of calls for Chinese athletes to be banned…

Really, the whole “Well others are doing the same thing…” argument doesn’t work for me. RUS has invaded another country, and along with the economic sanctions, RUS needs to be banned from ALL athletic participation outside of Mother Russia. There they can compete domestically in their own drugged-up, “we are a super-nation” à la Hitler Olympics to their heart’s content. Don’t need to see it (them), don’t want to see it (them).

Nyet means nyet!

 

[MaryClare]

What has decisions made by our government got to do with ordinary Russians? As pointed out, Russian athletes are participating in club leagues in other sports, which is what this is. Especially since we are talking about Russians residing in other countries.

We have been banned from athletic competition by the majority of sports governing bodies (although FINA a notable exception). But these are not competitions where anyone is representing their country.

How would excluding them, or anything as you’ve suggested, help the situation in Ukraine?

 

[JDB]

It’s easy to forget this since we follow Olympic sports, but most professional sports organizations have functional labor policies and/or unions. Union reps would have a conniption if an American franchise league tried to ban athlete participation based on nationality.

 

[rlayt]

Individuals who don’t live in Russia, aren’t representing Russia, and aren’t making political statements in favor of Putin shouldn’t be uninvited. All they have in common with Putin is their origin in Russia. That’s my opinion.

Clubs in countries that won’t approve a visa aren’t going to invite people who can’t come anyway, right? Non-sanctioned events Russian athletes might be invited to could be boycotted etc. plus participants can ask that Russians not be included then boycott if they are. The event would be a political problem too.

 

[GymnaSTICKS]

You seem to not understand that the whole of Ukraine is also being punished, and they also did nothing to deserve it.

 

[rlayt]

I understand it but Putin is to blame. People who choose to stay in Russia are to blame. People who speak for Putin, such as Trump and Tucker Carlson, are complicit too. Athletes representing Russia support their regime.

If you go the route of punishing anyone whose origin is Russia do you approve of people attacking Russians who emigrated? Should their homes and businesses in New York be seized? How about descendants? How far back in their ancestry do they have to be distanced from Russia to not be punished?

Anyone FROM Russia who does not support and live in Russia is NOT to blame.

 

[MaryClare]

No, I do understand. But how does punishing ordinary Russians help Ukraine? If anything, I’ve seen first hand how it strengthens domestic support for Putin, because it gives credibility to his rhetoric that the west hates us.

Right now the west is doing an excellent job at proving that Cold War era xenophobia never truly went away. Western messages about what is really happening in Ukraine are getting through, but why should we trust them?

 

[rlayt]

It isn’t xenophobia prompting how people feel or the actions taken. I’m afraid all that propaganda is influencing you. It’s special economic operations to hurt Russia’s invasion and war-mongering. The desire to see the country of Russia hurt is actually the desire to see a tyrant stopped. It’s too bad people in Russia suffer but as has been pointed out the people of Ukraine are dying and seeing their loved ones murdered. Babies are slaughtered.

 

[MaryClare]

Sadly I don’t think many people are able to see the difference between wishing to stop Putin and wanting to inflict hurt on the Russian people.

Please do not be so patronising as to say I am brainwashed. I would never assume someone to be brainwashed by Fox News just because they are American.

Tell me how me having to pay cash for my coffee this morning, or a Russian gymnast not competing at an Italian club competition, is going to stop Ukraine being attacked?

 

[rlayt]

I sympathize with your frustration. But whatever can be done to hurt Putin’s war efforts was bound to affect the citizens of Russia. It can’t be helped. Anything done to cause pain to Putin’s Russia is an unfortunate necessity.

Do you think your ability to pay for your coffee is such a major horror?

 

[MaryClare]

If these things were in any way effective in stopping the attacks in Ukraine, or Putin more generally then I would support them, and more.

I have already said earlier in the thread, that on a personal level and given our circumstances (husband works in investment for major state bank and I am contracted by army sports club) that we accept our punishment

 

[Doug1233]

What has decisions made by our government got to do with ordinary Russians?

You might as well say that about all of the economic sanctions affected ordinary Russians, though.

I’m sure you do make that point. But part of the point of sanctions is that the Government sees the pain inflicted on its citizens and then wants to course correct to stop that pain.

 

[Doug1233]

because it gives credibility to his rhetoric that the west hates us.

Surely the Russian people can see that “the West” only “hates Russians” after Russia invaded Ukraine.

None of this would have happened if Putin didn’t invade.

It’s silly for Russian’s to think “aha! See! they hated us all along!” when this is clearly in response to something that PUTIN has just done.

 

[rlayt]

Russian speaking Ukrainians with some previous Russian sympathy hate Russia now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-none-now-russia-has-lost-ukrainians-forever/

 

[MaryClare]

Kharkiv is completely destroyed. It’s a Russian majority city that previously was quite pro Putin. But now they see he doesn’t care or protect them where as Zelensky message is very uniting, inviting all Ukrainians to defend homeland.

 

[JaJa]

Kharkiv is completely destroyed. It’s a Russian majority city that previously was quite pro Putin. But now they see he doesn’t care or protect them where as Zelensky message is very uniting, inviting all Ukrainians to defend homeland.

Thats the really interesting thing. Since 2014 and until now there really was a big divide between Russian Ukrainians and Ukrainian Ukrainians. This seems to be turning them all anti Russian. But I hear from friends in other countries – like Moldova – that Russian speakers there are still pro Putin. And I am not convinced this will be a big unity in Ukraine itself. My guess is that when this is over the Russian speakers in Ukraine will face a good deal of enmity.

 

[MaryClare]

Well, it will make some change for west Ukraine to be calling east Ukraine collaborators anyway

 

[GymnaSTICKS]

Sorry rlayt, was not saying that you don’t understand - was replying to the linked message from MC. I certainly don’t think anyone with a link to Russia should be sanctioned. Heck, I lived in Moscow for a time - I’d have to sanction myself!

 

[rlayt]

I’m sorry! But no worries.

 

[Rich]

since most of eastern ukraine will be independent republics run by putin puppet mayors ( like he already has put two mayors in) I feel there will be a big divide and it will be more like annexed states.