Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[JaJa]

What I do know is that the media here regularly claim that Ukraine are using women and children as human shields, have refused to evacuate them and are using civilian facilities as military ones. So that may explain why the theatre was bombed.

But there is zero evidence of this. But absolutely zero.

So while it is true that a “dual use” facility becomes a legitimate target under the international law of armed conflict, the state attacking that or those facilities has to have some evidence to show that they are indeed dual use. And Russia has for sure not done that because I think we ALL know they are not.

There are cases where civilians are used as shields – in Gaza for example. But the Israeli army always documents it very well – and even then gets attacked by the international community, but that is another story.

Sorry, but the dual use thing just will not cut it here. Its absurd.

The deliberate attacking of civilians is apparently part of Putin’s goal in breaking the will of the Ukrainian people. Not so hard to figure this one out.

 

[MaryClare]

I know there is zero evidence of it. I haven’t suggested there is any legitimacy in Putin’s claims at all. But that is what he is saying, that is what the media here is reporting and that is presumably what the military is being told and what decisions are being based upon.

 

[Doug1233]

Ukraine are using women and children as human shields

Why would they need to? Who are they needing to shield against, per the Russian media?

Surely no one in Russia believes that Ukraine is bombing itself?

 

[JaJa]

that is presumably what the military is being told and what decisions are being based upon.

Under the international laws of armed conflict it is the military that has to verify dual use. They can not rely on claims of Putin.

 

[MaryClare]

They don’t believe Ukraine is bombing itself, they believe that Ukrainian military are hiding behind women and children therefore shelters and hospitals are legitimate targets and the resulting civilian deaths are the fault of ukraine

 

[JaJa]

Why would they need to? Who are they needing to shield against, per the Russian media?

Surely no one in Russia believes that Ukraine is bombing itself?

Not sure what you mean here. “Human shields” are used in war to prevent the enemy from attacking certain specific targets. So you put civilians in an ammunitions factory. Or you put civilians on the roof of a building where combatants. It makes the enemy think twice before attacking what is actually now a legitimate target because it is dual use. But this can easily be used as propaganda.

 

[rlayt]

I think he was asking in a tone of disbelief and being sarcastic.

It does beggar belief. Putin and the propaganda couldn’t get more ridiculous.

Putin says he will cleanse Russian society.

 

[Doug1233]

My point is asking why Russians think they need to bomb a Ukrainian munitions factory.

Ukraine isn’t bombing any Russian munitions factory.

Surely Russians aren’t stupid enough to believe this.

 

[Doug1233]

Putin says he will cleanse Russian society.

This is genocidal language.

 

[Doug1233]

are legitimate targets

Why do Russians think they are they legitimate targets?

 

[JaJa]

My point is asking why Russians think they need to bomb a Ukrainian munitions factory.

Ukraine isn’t bombing any Russian munitions factory.

Surely Russians aren’t stupid enough to believe this.

well, because an ammo factory is not only a legitimate military target but a pretty high value one. of course you wnat to destroy your enemy’s ammo factories

 

[Doug1233]

ammo factory is not only a legitimate military target

Why is it?

Ukraine isn’t bombing any Russian military targets IN RUSSIA.

 

[JaJa]

Why do Russians think they are they legitimate targets?

Because a dual use facility becomes a legitimate military target. Or at least it can. You still have to do a collateral damage kind of assessment.

 

[Doug1233]

You’re completely missing my point.

 

[JaJa]

Ukraine isn’t bombing any Russian military targets IN RUSSIA.

because if they do not have any weapons they can not defend themselves

 

[Doug1233]

You’re missing my point entirely.

One needs a reason to bomb a defence facility in a neighbouring country.

 

[MaryClare]

I told you, because the media/Putin claim that the Ukrainian military is using women and children as human shields so that they can continue shooting down Russian aircraft

 

[MaryClare]

You do if it’s a legitimate war. It isn’t.

 

[JaJa]

No you are missing the point

If this was a legitimate war (which agreed of course it is not) an ammo factory would be a legitimate military target under the laws of armed conflict. A children’s shelter is not. But if you have children being sheltered in an ammo factory then the factory becomes dual use and enters the realm of legitimate military targets.

 

[rlayt]

Putin’s speech translated.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdffyqsS/?k=1