Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[MaryClare]

That is not exclusive to Putin and Trump, I’d say most of us think of Americans as useful idiots. I think Putin probably saw all of the US presidents he has dealt with as idiots of varying degrees of usefulness.

 

[rlayt]

Propaganda has really done a number on people. That’s fine. It is useful to be underestimated.

 

[JaJa]

But this is not all that different from what I am saying

Trump, however, would turn on Putin in a minute if he felt insulted or threatened by him or if he just thought he could benefit from it

My point here was only that he was not “in Putin’s pocket.”

 

[JaJa]

That is not exclusive to Putin and Trump, I’d say most of us think of Americans as useful idiots. I think Putin probably saw all of the US presidents he has dealt with as idiots of varying degrees of usefulness

undoubtedly.

Anyway, Putin is getting the surprise of his life right now. Mostly thanks to Zellensky. Who, while a very imperfect President before this, rose to the occasion in a breathtaking way. We have literally never seen anything like this.

 

[MaryClare]

Zelensky is taking a huge, huge gamble. Either he ends this a millionaire, the darling of the west and the most in demand after dinner speaker ever.

Or dead.

 

[rlayt]

That isn’t why Zelensky doing this. He would still be a millionaire if he had been corrupt and looking after himself. He would have gotten that ride Biden offered him. People don’t admire him for looking out for himself but for his selflessness and loyalty to Ukraine. He doesn’t have the values of a Russian politician. He will probably be dead soon and he will be a martyr.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Yes, we know from the Pandora Papers that Zelensky wasn’t short of a few quid way before all this kicked off. He didn’t need Putin in order to have money and options. I expect plenty of visa options would’ve been open to him, but even if they weren’t, being Jewish he could’ve gone to live in Israel any time he wanted as well. Tel Aviv with enough money behind you to buy an apartment near the beach would be a great quality of life.

 

[MaryClare]

But that is true of many, many politicians. They could all live a much less hassle free life, but they crave power. And right now Zelensky has absolute power over his people. Very few leaders willingly give that up

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The point really is that this is clearly not about ending up with even more money and the darling of the west, because he could already have lived a well off life in any number of Western societies with a high standard of living.

 

[MaryClare]

Nice life. Zero power.

People are confusing him with his TV character. He’s a politician, like any other

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Depends what you mean by power. Being an ex president of a country confers more of that than the average. Either way though, talking about him ending this as a millionaire is a bit of an odd description bearing in mind he may very well have been one when it started, and wouldn’t have been stuck for after dinner gigs had he accepted Biden’s offer of a ride.

 

[JaJa]

He’s a politician, like any other

Au contraire. Zellensky is a politician like none other. How many times have we seen various Presidents and Prime Ministers in former Soviet Union countries flee the minute their regime is over and another opposition politician take their place? They are out of there before you can bat an eye because they know they will be imprisoned or killed. And its certainly not a phenomenon limited to former Soviet Union countries. Its basically ALWAYS what happens. Ashraf Ghani was out of Afghanistan as the Taliban was closing in on Kabul. Its what people do when they are staring down the barrel of a gun. Sorry, but it is just not okay to try to spin this guy as craving power. Its ridiculous. Whats all this power going to get him? He will likely die (although with the amount of prayers this man is getting who knows). You really have to curb your cynicism when it comes to Zellensky. The courage and heroism and statesmanship he is displaying is a once in a lifetime thing to behold. He may have been an ordinary man. Most heroes are until the moment comes when their heroism is summoned up.

 

[Doug1233]

Biden did NOT have to pay any attention to Trump’s deal.

I mean, there’s always the weight of a foreign country relying upon the actions of the President. To chop and change positions every 4 years makes the US look like an unreliable partner.

He wasn’t legally bound but you can’t say he was completely free and unburdened by Trump’s prior EO.

 

[Doug1233]

Welp

 

[JaJa]

He wasn’t legally bound but you can’t say he was completely free and unburdened by Trump’s prior EO.

What are you talking about? Foreign policy changes all the time with a new administration.

 

[JDB]

Rhythmic gymnast Melitina Staniouta is in Spain on a tourist visa. She doesn’t want to return to Belarus and is exploring visa and asylum options.

 

[makam]

Not all things, all the time: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/co...state-trumps-remain-mexico-policy-2021-08-14/

Sometimes you apparently get stuck with the previous administration’s crap, especially if they’ve packed the courts in their favor.

 

[Doug1233]

Lol did you read the sentence before?

 

[JaJa]

One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Foreign policy and deals made by executive agreement with a foreign sovereign v.s. domestic immigration policy reviewable by the courts.

 

[JaJa]

This is a bit of an aside, but I do not think people realize the extent to which Russia is and has been involved in stirring up discord in the U.S. using a huge variety of issues. For example, Putin had a vast campaign aimed at covid – a barrage of anti vax and anti mask garbage which was designed to look like it was coming from right wing Americans was coming from Russia. (Before y’all start screaming NO ONE IS SAYING THERE WERE NOT ALSO PLENTY OF AMERICAN ANTI VAXXERS). The point is Putin has for years been using anything he could to stir up political discord in the U.S.