Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[JaJa]

Thank you for posting this. I am used to the pro-Trump rhetoric in the USA but have to say hearing people parroting basically Don Jr talking points(Trump so manly and strong, Biden so feeble and weak) from other parts of the world has me a little shook.

Putin didn’t invade Ukraine under Trump because he didn’t have to. Trump agreed to withdraw from Afghanistan, launched an extortion scheme to withhold military hardware from Ukraine, weakened the US relationship with our NATO allies(and may have withdrawn all together if had a second term), Trump had disdain for the EU…the wish list of things Putin would like the USA to do, and did under Trump, goes on.

Putin saw no need to mess with a good thing.

Oh honestly. You are not seeing any pro Trump rhetoric on this board and you are simply rattling off talking points which reflect no real understanding of the situation.

First of all let me remind you it was not Trump who pulled our forces out of Afghanistan, it was Biden. But in any case, a sustained U.S. military presence in Afghanistan actually served Russian interests by containing a potentially explosive conflict south of its border. Russia played a quiet but significant role in supporting the U.S led coalition in Afghanistan up til 2015 by allowing NATO to transport equipment through Russian territory. The only thing Russia got out of our withdrawal from Afghanistan was some glee at a perceived American defeat.

And as far as Russia supporting Trumps election in 2016 and attempt at reelection in 2020, what they were really supporting , and were quite successful at, was discord in American politics.

 

[JaJa]

I know. I admit to having mixed feelings about it. But the alternative has been that we basically allowed what may be one of the greatest humanitarian crises of our time to occur. And we gave Putin more reason to think he can continue to invade one country after another.

 

[MaryClare]

I don’t think it’s so much that Trump would have taken a firmer stance against Putin, it would have been less likely to happen were Trump still President

 

[MaryClare]

Please tell me someone else has had one of these

 

[JaJa]

think it’s so much that Trump would have taken a firmer stance against Putin, it would have been less likely to happen were Trump still President

Well, that’s true also. Trump’s reactions to most things were very hard or impossible to predict because he was a madman, driven by totally personal forces as opposed to any geopolitical logic. He had practically no understanding of international geopolitics, and really didn’t care either. That’s why virtually the entire U.S. security community was so opposed to him. He was truly dangerous , not because he was allied to Russia, which he wasn’t, but because he was unpredictable and uncontrollable. A guy like Putin would appeal to him because he saw him as strong and tough or, as Trump’s mind worked “a winner.” He acted and reacted largely on whim and usually just based on whatever made him feel good personally. The few areas of policy where we saw some logic or at least some consistency were being driven by someone else entirely. Like his policy with Israel and the Gulf States. That was virtually 100% Jared. Not Trump.

 

[Passion]

Looks like spam, I haven’t gotten one from Microsoft but I get them pretending to be from ATT or Amazon all the time.

 

[MaryClare]

Unfortunately it’s not spam. It’s legit

 

[JaJa]

That is a legitimate Microsoft message and url

 

[rlayt]

Jaja unfortunately trump did make a deal while in office to remove our forces from Afghanistan.

US general says Afghanistan collapse rooted in Trump-Taliban deal

Top general says collapse of the Afghan government can be traced to US troop withdrawal deal.

www.aljazeera.com

And Trump who decided to withdraw our forces from Syria.

The Realists Are Wrong About Syria

Neither Trump nor the international relations experts who cheered his choice to withdraw U.S. troops have wrestled adequately with the costs of departure.

foreignpolicy.com

Let’s not forget Trump called for Russia to be admitted to the G7.

 

[rlayt]

Trump was too cozy with Russia.

Trump sides with Russia against FBI - BBC News

The US president contradicts intelligence agencies over claims of interference in the US election.

www.bbc.com

https://accounts.theatlantic.com/products/?source=nudge2

And there were all the other things. “ Maybe former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, for instance, was simply trying to repay his multimillion dollar debt to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska when he passed internal polling numbers to his former business partner, Konstantin Kilimnik. Maybe George Papadopoulos, whose previous claim to fame was serving in the Model United Nations, was merely puffing himself up when he drunkenly told an Australian ambassador that Russia had Hillary Clinton’s missing emails — a meeting that reportedly alarmed FBI officials and set off the Russiagate inquiry.” That’s from https://www.politico.eu/article/don...e-vladimir-putin-so-much-us-russia-probe/amp/

 

[JaJa]

Thats quite right. he did. But he did not remove our forces and Biden was certainly NOT bound by Trump’s deal. First, the Taliban had violated the agreement by cooperating with Al Qaeda and attacking the Afghani army. But even if they had not – A President is NOT bound by an executive agreement a former President makes with a foreign entity. This was NOT a treaty ratified by a 2/3 vote of approval in the Senate. It did NOT bind any future President.

 

[JaJa]

And Trump who decided to withdraw our forces from Syria.

Trump’s policy in Syria was completely incoherent and abyssmal. Look, I am not defending or promoting Trump. On anything. He was a lunatic and had literally no understanding of foreign affairs. But this entire “he was in Putin’s pocket” is silly. It just is not true. It was actually part of a package of narratives people in the security community floated and it stuck. But no one who really understands the situation believes it – the intelligence community was very rightly scared to death of trump and needed to turn the American voter against him. Which they did. And which was a good thing. I for sure did not vote for him either time. But Biden is making a total mess of things all on his own – albeit for different reasons

 

[rlayt]

Trump made the deal so Trump is responsible. Trump was the one who made that decision to start with. You aren’t taking into account any other factors in politics at that time. It’s rarely that easy. Regardless it has less to do with Russia than any other of the things on Trump vs. Biden. RUSSIA not Afghanistan.

 

[rlayt]

Trump was incoherent in most ways. He made us weaker by pulling out and abandoning our Syrian allies. In front of Russia.

You sound as though you are trying to make Biden responsible for Putin thinking we were easy. Trump was not strong on Russia.

 

[JaJa]

Trump made the deal so Trump is responsible.

How is Trump responsible for Biden pulling our forces out of Afghanistan? Biden did NOT have to pay any attention to Trump’s deal. It was NOT a treaty and NO President following Trump was legally bound by it. And even if they were – which they were not – since the Taliban had violated the deal right and left the U.S. did nt have to abide by it.

 

[JaJa]

You sound as though you are trying to make Biden responsible for Putin thinking we were easy.

I’m really not. That impression goes back years and for sure began in earnest when Obama did not enforce his redline on Syria. Trump was not strong on Russia – no. But what he was was completely unpredictable. I think for that reason alone Putin would not have pulled this during Trump’s Presidency. Biden is for sure a more rational man. And he has a better understanding of the situation. But that does not mean he is strong. Because he isn;t.

 

[rlayt]

Since it has nothing to do with Russia I think arguing it is a red herring. I’m going to leave it where I put it.

One thing presidents signed off on years ago that should have been followed up on is The Budapest Memorandum. None of the presidents since it was signed have honored it. Nobody held Putin accountable.

 

[JDB]

Change all your passwords immediately. Get a password manager to help remember them. Enable two-factor authentication on any services that provide it. Use email or an authenticator app for two-factor authentication. Do not use text message authentication.

 

[JaJa]

One thing presidents signed off on years ago that should have been followed up on is The Budapest Memorandum. None of the presidents since it was signed have honored it. Nobody held Putin accountable.

Totally agreed. Russia violated literally every commitment it made in that Memorandum.

The world is one big mess. And trying to figure out how to deal with everything is one endlessly complicated chess game which i for one am glad i do not have to play.

 

[RedBirdie]

Trump’s policy in Syria was completely incoherent and abyssmal. Look, I am not defending or promoting Trump. On anything. He was a lunatic and had literally no understanding of foreign affairs. But this entire “he was in Putin’s pocket” is silly. It just is not true. It was actually part of a package of narratives people in the security community floated and it stuck. But no one who really understands the situation believes it – the intelligence community was very rightly scared to death of trump and needed to turn the American voter against him. Which they did. And which was a good thing. I for sure did not vote for him either time. But Biden is making a total mess of things all on his own – albeit for different reasons

Funny, I know lots of people in the foreign policy, national security, and intelligence communities, and the consensus among them is Trump’s an illiterate madman who quite happily did Putin’s bidding because:
a) he wants to be Putin, the big strong guy who is leader for life; and
b) a fucking idiot who who much too stupid to see that Putin used him (Trump thinks they’re best buddies. Putin thinks Trump is a very useful idiot)

Putin knew how to exploit Trump’s (many and well-known) weaknesses to further his own aims of weakening NATO, the EU, the US, and more. At no point was Trump thinking “Today I’ll help Putin by doing X.” But that doesn’t change the fact that Putin got Trump to do all sorts of things that helped further Putin’s goals at the expense of long-standing allies and relationships.