Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[JaJa]

There’s no such thing as a defensive no fly zone. What are NATO planes going to do when a Russian plane violates it? It also wouldn’t be very useful, as Russian Air Force have barely been used and are responsible for only small portion of destruction. Majority is surface missiles. Which sure, NATO could take out from the air. But then it stops becoming defensive.

With every day, Putin has less to lose and with that the higher chance he goes nuclear.

I really do not know what you mean. Of course we would help Ukraine defend itself with a no fly zone. This war is defensive for the Ukraine in that Russia is the aggressor and we would be assisting in Ukraine’s defense. If you mean a no fly zone has to be enforced if Russia does not comply with it – which I am sure it wouldn’t – that’s correct. But it is still defensive in nature. There is one and only one country here on the offensive and that’s Russia. NATO and the U.S. coming in and helping Ukraine defend itself does not make our actions offensive.

It would be a major major operation, we would need hundreds of planes and Patriot and other anti missile batteries to protect us from Russian missiles and yes it would mean we would be shooting down Russian planes.

I just do not see that we have any other choice. How can we allow this wholesale destruction of a sovereign nation to take place?

Putin has a lot more to fear from us than we have to fear from him. Its time to stop cowering in the corner for fear of “escalation.”

 

[JaJa]

How many innocent people are you willing to sacrifice in order to do that?

The only person you should be addressing that question to is Putin.

 

[MaryClare]

It is all too easy to forget that many of us in Russia have opposed Putin and his policies for years whilst the west threw a tantrum every time Trump tweeted something mildly offensive

 

[rlayt]

Can you explain how trumps tweeting and opponents of his being disgusted has anything to do with Putin? Other than trump wanting to be like Putin. Many of us felt trump would like to have tried to move us more towards an authoritarian government. Opposition started with opposition to his words. Tweets etc are where it starts.

You have to be willing to oppose even your own government when it is wrong. Disliking your leader isn’t enough without action.

 

[JaJa]

It is all too easy to forget that many of us in Russia have opposed Putin and his policies for years whilst the west threw a tantrum every time Trump tweeted something mildly offensive

But I am not forgetting that. And I know the extreme pressure and repression you live under. But that does not mean that the West can tolerate Putin marching all over eastern Europe gobbling up nation states. He is not going to stop at Ukraine.

 

[JaJa]

The thing is though, while Trump was a total lunatic and was motivated primarily by his vanity, I have a very strong feeling he would have been far more assertive than Biden is being here. Trump really was not ideological. People do not understand that. He was more like a thin skinned adolescent in a boxing ring. Hit you and he will hit you back harder. I think he would have put up a no fly zone days ago. My guess is that Putin knew that.

 

[rlayt]

I don’t think so Jaja. A week ago he was still singing Putin’s praises. I do agree Biden is fearful and dragging his feet.

Trump tried to lower support for NATO. One of his former advisors recently said Trump was going to get us out of NATO.

 

[MaryClare]

Plenty people asking why now, with regards to Putin and Ukraine. The answer is the weakest US president, in my life time anyway

 

[rlayt]

Oh come on! You are passing the blame into Biden for Putin’s invasion and murder? You are grasping at straws now.

 

[JaJa]

Plenty people asking why now, with regards to Putin and Ukraine. The answer is the weakest US president, in my life time anyway

exactly my point

Putin saw our weakness with Syria. And he sat back and waited for the right moment to go and get Ukraine.

 

[JaJa]

Oh come on! You are passing the blame into Biden for Putin’s invasion and murder? You are grasping at straws now.

I do not think MC is blaming Biden. Its obviously not his fault. But he is weak and Putin, like any bully, knows weakness when he sees it and knows when to strike

 

[rlayt]

We needed to do something before when Trump pulled us out of Syria. We should have done something in 2014. But it’s not our fault that Putin keeps killing and invading.

 

[MaryClare]

I think Putin and Trump had a level of mutual respect that Putin has not had for any other US President

 

[JaJa]

I don’t think so Jaja. A week ago he was still singing Putin’s praises. I do agree Biden is fearful and dragging his feet.

Trump tried to lower support for NATO. One of his former advisors recently said Trump was going to get us out of NATO.

It meant nothing when Trump praised Putin. Look, truly, Trump had almost no ideology. At least none that he would stand by. I knew him a little before he went into politics. He was a very liberal guy. He turned on a dime when he sensed that he could create a base out of the right wing fringe. Trump is and always was a bully. And he admired Putin because Putin is a bully. But once Putin attacked Ukraine Trump would want to show him that we are stronger than he is. He would NEVER go along with political advisors telling him not to risk direct confrontation.

 

[rlayt]

We are not the policemen of the world. Others could have done more too. Nevertheless that doesn’t mean we stand around now. Diplomacy has failed. If Biden’s advisors are saying appeasement is the way to go they are wrong.

 

[JaJa]

I think Putin and Trump had a level of mutual respect that Putin has not had for any other US President

Yes. Because they are 2 of a kind. Tough guys. Bullies. That does not mean they would not go to war against eachother. They would.

 

[JaJa]

If Biden’s advisors are saying appeasement is the way to go they are wrong.

Agreed. But this is a much more complicated thing geo politically than just eastern europe. Because oil and gas are involved. And to get Europe to do anything we need to provide them an alternative to Russian fuel. The Middle east is not something that can be ignored.

 

[rlayt]

Hopefully they are working that out. UAE agreed to increase production. That’s a temporary fix. But yes it’s complicated because the issues are intertwined. But there’s no way we can let Putin continue to invade and take over other countries.

 

[MaryClare]

You prefer countries to be in the pockets of the Middle East? That political stable, bastion of liberal democracy and human rights Middle East?!

 

[rlayt]

We have to seek a balance. I refuse to pick between them. It’s a false narrative to say it’s one or the other.