Gymnast Social Media Megathread

[Doug1233]

That Ring jump you linked is not great quality. Front leg too low, the arch of the head and shoulders is mediocre, and the back leg is a bit questionable if it got far enough up as the rules require.

Are you kidding?

The front leg is absolutely not “too low”. It is at horizontal, which is what the rules require. The back foot is not “questionable” - it is absolutely at head height, which is a “small fault”. Head release is fine. Yes the back arch could be better. But this is a creditable Split Jump to Ring with a likely 0.1 body shape deduction (I really don’t think the judges would add the two “smalls” together to get a 0.3 - they specifically removed that from the Code). And in any event, in no universe is this a split jump with a 0.3 body shape deduction.

Is it your argument that her back foot is not at the crown of head? She clearly has arch and head release (although it could be better). This is 100% creditable.

The New Help Desk gives this an example of no Ring credit because no arch and back foot not at head height:

The example of Suni posted above is clearly far superior.

I don’t have confidence in Suni being able to do it just because it’s on Floor instead.

Literally?

She had .2 deduction in the 2019 performance, that’s not “a lot”. Perhaps the solo 2.5 twist can be explored as a dismount also though.

Maybe it was worth doing in 2019. But why is 2019 your reference point? Her next elite routine will be mid 2023. Surely 2021 is a better reference point?

It’s very unlikely she will want to drop the Double Layout or do it as the 3rd pass, so it’s inherently always going to be a question of some C dance element vs. an “F” rated acro element.

Which is why she should explore front-loading her 2 or 3 pass routine such that she dismounts with the Silivas or the DLO so she still gets the 0.2 DMT bonus.

 

[navyblue]

Which is why she should explore front-loading her 2 or 3 pass routine such that she dismounts with the Silivas or the DLO so she still gets the 0.2 DMT bonus.

Yeah I’m really not feeling this dismount bonus idea applied to FX.

Quoting from the code:

In order to credit the Bonus, the last Acro Line must be performed without a fall.

Should I take this to mean that you can at least retain a choreographic back aerial at the end of your routine without sacrificing bonus because it’s not an “acro line”?

 

[Yarotska]

Should I take this to mean that you can at least retain a choreographic back aerial at the end of your routine without sacrificing bonus because it’s not an “acro line”?

If it comes from a roundoff or back handspring it’s an acro line

 

[Doug1233]

Yes I believe it would need to take off from one foot (and not 2) to not be considered an acro line.

 

[GymBeauty]

Posting screencaps of how an element looks for 0.001 seconds is not how the element actually looks in real time. Her front leg is not up that high for a significant amount of time, and the back leg is less extended than seen in better ring executions. The positions should be apparent in real time. Those screencaps also clearly show the lack of a great arch. People are looking back at their foot in a top notch ring element.

 

[Doug1233]

Are you seriously trying to argue that Suni shouldn’t get credit for that Ring position?

 

[GymBeauty]

First of all, the discussion was about doing a Ring Leap. An element Suni has not done and that I argue she would not excel at. Even Tang Xijing has dropped this element from Floor.

I never said Suni absolutely wouldn’t get credit for the ring jump you posted. I said the form is questionable. The front leg is below horizontal in real time. The head and back leg are not as stretched out as seen from others. If the back leg is not getting clearly up to the top of the head, then it’s going to be a risk with panels these days.

 

[Yarotska]

First of all, the discussion was about doing a Ring Leap. An element Suni has not done and that I argue she would not excel at. Even Tang Xijing has dropped this element from Floor.

I never said Suni absolutely wouldn’t get credit for the ring jump you posted. I said the form is questionable. The front leg is below horizontal in real time. The head and back leg are not as stretched out as seen from others. If the back leg is not getting clearly up to the top of the head, then it’s going to be a risk with panels these days.

Obviously that’s your opinion. To me, it was obviously a good ring shape. And the judges don’t use that angle for judging so obviously they saw it better as when she hit, she got really good E scores.

 

[navyblue]

I know that @GymBeauty is citing the actual latest guidelines but this “real time” nonsense grinds my gears. If a slo-mo video proves the legitimacy of a position that you (a judge) failed to observe in “real” time, I think you need to work on your perceptive faculties and adjust accordingly, rather than penalizing a gymnast. Or, ya know, just send the robots in to do your job.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

I think that most judges are astute enough and taken a lot of time to watch skills in real-time and in slow-motion to realize that if “this is the position that the eye is able to capture in real-time”, then this is what is actually accomplished in the skill.

 

[navyblue]

That’s what I would hope is happening!

 

[KristyJ]

Being able to recognize the fullest extent of a position achieved, even if less obvious in “real time” than slo-mo, is actually an important part of judging training. They use screen shots such as Doug’s in those trainings to demonstrate how to recognize positions.
And Suni’s does actually visibly hit a creditable position in real time, screen shot not needed.

 

[GymBeauty]

this “real time” nonsense grinds my gears. If a slo-mo video proves the legitimacy of a position that you (a judge) failed to observe in “real” time, I think you need to work on your perceptive faculties and adjust accordingly, rather than penalizing a gymnast.

Well no, if a position is more observable in real time, it means the gymnast did it better, because they either held it longer or were stretched out more, creating a better overall picture.

I’m all for using replays, including slo-mo replays for determining difficulty scores, but Gymnastics should look good in real time. That’s what we are watching after all.

Suni’s does actually visibly hit a creditable position in real time

Barely at times. Hence my feeling she wouldn’t have a strong Ring Leap, which is harder to get the position credited on.

she got really good E scores.

Her best E-score at the Olympics was 7.8 on Beam. I would not call that “really good” (yes the judging is harsh, but still) and I’m pretty sure her ring elements got deducted on the front leg being too low.

 

[Caligym]

Lee’s best E score on beam at O’s was an 8.0. The Olympic champion that year got an 8.033, so yes Lee’s E score was really good.

 

[Doug1233]

She would have gotten silver if she hadn’t wobbled on her lay lay.

 

[GymBeauty]

Lee’s best E score on beam at O’s was an 8.0

Okay she missed a connection instead. Her max score was 14.2 at Olympics on an attempted 6.4 routine.

I don’t think the Olympic champ getting 8.033 is really an argument. That was not one of Chenchen’s best performances and it was also a much harder routine and had no rings, so it’s not comparable there. Without seeing the exact judging scores per element we’ll never know for sure, but it’s unlikely Suni received the scores she did with 0 deduction on her rings, and I maintain her overall quality doesn’t look great enough to do a reliably high scoring Ring Leap.

 

[Doug1233]

but it’s unlikely Suni received the scores she did with 0 deduction on her rings

No-one is saying she had 0 deduction on her rings.

 

[GymBeauty]

No-one is saying she had 0 deduction on her rings.

That seems to be exactly what you were trying to say about her form. LOL?

Suni’s front leg is visible deduction on her beam rings and from what I can tell you have been arguing it’s not.

 

[Doug1233]

Yes the back arch could be better. But this is a creditable Split Jump to Ring with a likely 0.1 body shape deduction (I really don’t think the judges would add the two “smalls” together to get a 0.3 - they specifically removed that from the Code).

@GymBeauty Do you even read what I write?

Do you know the difference between D Panel credit and E panel deductions?

That’s the only explanation I can gather from your misunderstanding above?

If a skill is creditable it can, and usually does, still get deductions…

Suni’s front leg is visible deduction on her beam rings and from what I can tell you have been arguing it’s not.

I literally posted screenshots of several of her split rings showing a completely “at horizontal” front leg. There are ZERO deductions for a front leg being “at horizontal”.

I genuinely don’t know what more I can say here.

 

[GymBeauty]

Do you know the difference between D Panel credit and E panel deductions?

Why do you ask a question like this. Very patronizing.

I literally posted screenshots of several of her split rings showing a completely “at horizontal” front leg.

Again, a gymnast barely reaching a position for a microsecond in an element is not great quality. When the leg is below horizontal throughout in real time, that is deductible.

I don’t get what you’re even arguing about if you think the element would receive a .1 body shape deduction. The body shape flaw is exactly what I am pointing out.