FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal)

[onodian]

Come on, Voinea is about fairness, absolutely.

 

[KristyJ]

It could be both at the same time

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

It's all politics. For the delegation it's really not about these two athletes, it's about a legacy program that's not living up to past glory and a refusal to accept disappointment with dignity.

This is rather a reach. Obviously there's always politics, in that federations wouldn't be trying to get medals given to their competitors/taken away from their own gymnasts even if they had a mechanism to do so. That's a given. But the bits about not living up to past glory are invention.

 

[Ginger]

And according to the rules in place on the day of competition, an OOB is also not reviewable.

How so?
I know someone posted a screenshot from the COP somewhere, can't find it so I copy from Reddit:

Section 3: Regulations for coaches:

3.1 rights of the coaches. The coach is guaranteed the right to:

i) inquire to superior jury concerning the evaluation of the content of the exercise of the gymnastics (see TR8.4)

j) request to superior jury a review of the time and line deductions.

Do we know what Romanians inquired regarding to Voinea's score? Specific skill not being credited? ND?
Because it sounds to me that they had the right to inquire ND, and if they didn't, then it's their fault and they should lose the case. It's wrong, but that's how the rules are (or at least, how I understand them, and of course I may be wrong).

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

There probably will be some degree of backlash, though maybe the level would get lower the longer it gets dragged out. It's just there's no way round that now. Backlash free options are not available. The internet always finds a way.

 

[Memphisgym]

Come on, Voinea is about fairness, absolutely.

What you think is fair and what I think is fair are different. And whatever the outcome of the appeal, there will be people who think it's fair and people who think it's not. There are no absolutes here.

 

[onodian]

Fine, I know a lost cause when I read one. Suit yourself. Just remember, fairness might also be incredibly relative when you ask for understanding for your cause.

 

[heythere]

The Barbosu thing is politics. I understand why would they, but yeah, nothing should come of that. And she would be my preferred bronze medallist, but there is no argument for her, as things stand.

The Barbasu complaint has nothing to do with politics and is not about her exercise. The complaint is against the American team, more specifically against Cecile Landi, the coach of Jordan Chiles. The issue is that apparently they took too long to go to the judges and ask for the reevaluation of the exercise(i'm not sure how this procedure is called). Normally they have 2 minutes to issue the complaint, but in the case of the last gymnast they have only 1 min. The Romanians say they took more than a minute. Source:

„ANA MARIA POATE LUA BRONZUL!” Surse TAS,pentru GOLAZO.ro: „Se pare că americanii au greșit!”

Surse din Tribunalul de Arbitraj Sportiv au dezvăluit, pentru GOLAZO.ro, culisele contestațiilor depuse de România în urma finalei olimpice de la sol

golazo.ro

 

[rlayt]

Just remember, fairness might also be incredibly relative when you ask for understanding for your cause.

That’s one of the reasons rules have to be applied the same for everyone. Fairness shouldn’t be relative.

 

[Snowfan]

The Barbasu complaint has nothing to do with politics and is not about her exercise. The complaint is against the American team, more specifically against Cecile Landi, the coach of Jordan Chiles. The issue is that apparently they took too long to go to the judges and ask for the reevaluation of the exercise(i'm not sure how this procedure is called). Normally they have 2 minutes to issue the complaint, but in the case of the last gymnast they have only 1 min. The Romanians say they took more than a minute. Source:

„ANA MARIA POATE LUA BRONZUL!” Surse TAS,pentru GOLAZO.ro: „Se pare că americanii au greșit!”

Surse din Tribunalul de Arbitraj Sportiv au dezvăluit, pentru GOLAZO.ro, culisele contestațiilor depuse de România în urma finalei olimpice de la sol

golazo.ro

How is two minutes for everyone else ok but the last gymnast only has one minute. How is that fair to the last gymnast?

 

[rlayt]

Everyone should have two minutes. The rules should be the same.

I expect everything decided will be based on current rules and anything outside the rules, fair or not, will be rejected.

It might be time to send letters and speak to fig about whether the rules are fair.

 

[Snowfan]

Unfortunately by participating in what ever comp, the gymnasts are agreeing to the rules. Whether they are fair or not. I agree that they have to go by what is the written rule at the time of the comp. Otherwise they would be going back to ever comp and changing the results. The best I think would be to go forward from here and readjust the rules for the future.

 

[heythere]

It's also kind of weird that the judges didn't reject their complaint because the time was up. I'm surprised that they directly challenged the Americans. The source that I posted earlier was the only one that I could find that's talking about the time issue. But normally that site is legit, even though is new. Maybe someone that knows the rules can confirm the 1 vs 2 minutes?

 

[phoenix7]

Is it a sign of the ongoing bullying of Barbosu or just a recognition that honestly, Voinea has the better case here, unless they can make them reconsider Chiles' routine again. There was a genuine judging error in Voinea's routine that would have given her bronze even with Chiles' accepted inquiry.

Or maybe it's both refusal to support Barbosu and Voinea coincidentally having the stronger case.

I think Ana has the stronger case in the sense that it's open and shut. Either the enquiry was on time or it wasn't. If it wasn't, Ana was already bronze medal winner when the enquiry was accepted. Hard not to acknowledge that.

Sabrina has the more obvious case. If she didn't go out of bounds, she deserves another .1. But ... if Romania didn't follow procedures to get the ND reviewed, or if the camera angle and process disadvantaged everyone equally, it's not obvious she'd get that .1 back even if the OOB is disproved.

I am still a fan of, though not expecting, the three way bronze solution.

 

[Ginger]

The Barbasu complaint has nothing to do with politics and is not about her exercise. The complaint is against the American team, more specifically against Cecile Landi, the coach of Jordan Chiles. The issue is that apparently they took too long to go to the judges and ask for the reevaluation of the exercise(i'm not sure how this procedure is called). Normally they have 2 minutes to issue the complaint, but in the case of the last gymnast they have only 1 min. The Romanians say they took more than a minute. Source:

„ANA MARIA POATE LUA BRONZUL!” Surse TAS,pentru GOLAZO.ro: „Se pare că americanii au greșit!”

Surse din Tribunalul de Arbitraj Sportiv au dezvăluit, pentru GOLAZO.ro, culisele contestațiilor depuse de România în urma finalei olimpice de la sol

golazo.ro

I don't speak Romanian so I ran it through Google Translate. And here is the answer to my question. They obviously inquired Voinea's D, not ND and it even sounds Romanians know it will be likely rejected by CAS.

Which of the sportswomen do you think has a better chance of receiving a favorable decision at the CAS. Ana or Sabrina? Although, being Romanian, we would like, at least emotionally, both of them on the podium.

From my point of view, Ana Maria Barbosu. Do you know why? Because at Sabrina Voinea there was no appeal for space. I mean during the contest. But one related to the difficulty score. And now, at TAS, there is an appeal against the referees' decision of stepping outside the competition area. So the chances are less, but it's not impossible.

 

[MaryClare]

Romania are taking a 2 pronged approach to it.

Either the inquiry wasn’t in on time, and they’ll argue that Barbosu is the rightful bronze medalist. Or the inquiry was in on time, but Voinea was given a 0.1 deduction when she didn’t go out of bounds

 

[heythere]

update: also digi is quoting golazo.ro so this is becoming mainstream coverage in Romania

Ce răsturnare de situație! TAS a dezvăluit elementul care schimbă tot, după scandalul de la gimnastică

România speră în continuare că va avea o medalie la gimnastică, la Jocurile Olimpice de la Paris.

www.digisport.ro

 

[KristyJ]

If they did not appeal the neutral deduction, and the Americans' inquiry was within the minute, then, they have no case and all of this is prolonging something that was done within the rules even if it also revealed judging issues that should be addressed in the future. (Unless they can prove bias on the part of a judge, but that seems highly spurious and unlikely). And I can't imagine prolonging it is good for any of the athletes involved.

 

[phoenix7]

If they did not appeal the neutral deduction, and the Americans' inquiry was within the minute, then, they have no case and all of this is prolonging something that was done within the rules even if it also revealed judging issues that should be addressed in the future. (Unless they can prove bias on the part of a judge, but that seems highly spurious and unlikely). And I can't imagine prolonging it is good for any of the athletes involved.

Was the American enquiry within the minute, though? Time has to be logged on the spot, so surely this information is out there and we can stop dragging this out?

 

[heythere]

I think that it would be insane to complain about the time if they wouldn't have evidence that the American coach took more than 1 min. They would hire lawyers, spend money, make us hope than something can change, just for nothing? It would be madness.