FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal)

[Lisaelaine80]

FIG will attempt to bury this as long as they can to not catch the attention of the IOC.

How far it goes depends on how much of a stir Romania is willing to kick up.

It’s MAMA Voinea.

 

[tsarinajen]

Romania appealed to the FIG.

 

[rlayt]

Good. Maybe this will lead to change. I was afraid they would just sit back and snipe about it.

 

[makam]

While this really sucks for both Ana and Sabrina (and Jordan for any of the vitriol that is splashing on her), hopefully this brings about some change and more transparency in scoring/judging. I don't believe that the computer judging is ready, but less focus needs to be on judges being "in range" and more on "accurate and consistent" and the competitors need the ability to challenge more than just the D score. Of course that contrasts with no one wanting to wait 20 minutes for the score. It will take some innovative thinking.

 

[Lisaelaine80]

It’s the right call. The Olympics can be a one time opportunity. There’s no excuse for marking an OOB in error. Put someone at the line like back in the day. Unacceptable.

 

[onodian]

I don't think they'll open up e-score appeals, nor do I wait them to, tbh. This particular situation, however, is just wrong and must be addressed.

All this being said, that letter looks like it came out of chat gpt. Sabrina should argue the very concrete and frankly indisputable fact at hand. Unless this nd is something else which what could it be

 

[Memphisgym]

Sports have always been judged/ assessed/ refereed imperfectly. Often the most practical outcome is future improvements.

If IOC were to adjust or acknowledge an error here, they would have to do the same for the controversial calls currently being protested in surfing and tennis. It would start a chain reaction that they're not interested in handling.

 

[makam]

Sports have always been judged/ assessed/ refereed imperfectly. Often the most practical outcome is future improvements.

If FIG were to adjust or acknowledge an error here, they would have to do the same for the controversial calls currently being protested in surfing and tennis. It would start a chain reaction that they're not interested in handling.

I think you mean the IOC, because, yeah, aside from some extremely egregious errors, they don't go back. FIG too likes to pretend the past is the past but it is up to the fans and federations to make sure improvements happen. Paul Hamm still has his OGM as far as i know, Raducan doesn't have hers. So, hold them accountable for improvement to make the future better.

 

[Laura722]

Voinea being so upset yesterday now makes more sense.

I was all for Jordan being on podium with a hit routine. I don't understand why Jordan's appeal was accepted, while others were denied. On the surface, I feel like it looks like favoritism towards the US, at least to the other countries.

 

[onodian]

Sports have always been judged/ assessed/ refereed imperfectly. Often the most practical outcome is future improvements.

This isn't "imperfect". It is simply not how their own rules work. And it's demonstrable, again, if the nd is the oob. I still have to hear an argument against this other than "oh well, shit happens". At least Paul Hamm in 2004 was an argument over did the Korean do this or that actually. There is no argument here. This isn't good for the sport.

I don't know what's being contested in tennis, but I'm sure if it's a line call, the argument is, you cannot know how it impacted the rest of the match. It's like Khorkina in Sidney, where it's shit but at the same time everyone knows it won't happen cause it would have to be a re-do. There is no argument against this, afaik. If there had been a tie, they would have given two medals just like in HB. At the very least have one made and give it to Sabrina.

 

[Ginger]

I don't think they'll open up e-score appeals, nor do I wait them to, tbh. This particular situation, however, is just wrong and must be addressed.

All this being said, that letter looks like it came out of chat gpt. Sabrina should argue the very concrete and frankly indisputable fact at hand. Unless this nd is something else which what could it be

The first paragraph - is ND really part of e-score? I assume they are three separate entities of the final score (D, E, ND), and while only D can be appealed in an inquiry, appealing ND (hopefully a change that would came out of this s..t) doesn't mean opening e-score appeals.

Second paragraph - agree 100%. I suppose it was just a crappy google translate from French or Romanian, but still, the wording and reasoning is weird. I mean, Voineas and Romanian are in the right to appeal, but the only thing they can (should) point out is the -0.1 ND.

But also, I am now so happy it's not Barbosu with the bronze so she's out of this shitstorm.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

Fun fact: Yazaira Cabrera-Davila was on the D panel for floor at U.S. Nationals and the Olympic Trials this year.

Yes, and what we need to remember is that she as a member of the D-panel, along with the AS, was responsible for the initial decision of NOT awarding the Gogean and thus crediting only tour jeté 180°. In AF the AS and the D-panel need to be in agreement on the D-score with zero tolerance for difference. When the score is released and an inquiry is submitted, it is taken OUT of the hands of the D-panel and it goes to the superior jury. There is a separate panel that evaluates the entire exercise. That is why there are instances where a D-score might not be raised, or even remain, BUT actually be lowered (Think Moors, FX WC '19 QC).

The D-panel actually did their job properly (in my eyes) but the superior jury was the body that made the bad decision.

EDITED to say:

I went back and re-read the rules:

Apparatus Finals
– If the D-jury score is lower than the AS score by 0.50 or more
– If the D-jury score is higher than the AS score by 0.10 or more

Examples: AS Score D Jury Score Outcome
1 6.50 6.00 Blocked
2 6.50 6.10 OK
3 5.60 5.70 Blocked
4 6.00 6.30 Blocked
5 6.70 6.40 OK

 

[Ginger]

That is why there are instances where a D-score might not be raised, or even remain, BUT actually be lowered (Think Moors, FX WC '19 QC).

Wasn't it Kara Eaker beam at WC '19? Or a FX s..t happened there too?

 

[makam]

I wonder if, in a few years, judging will be all AI with a human just verifying until the computer learns well enough? Maybe humans doing the artistry deductions. Cameras on all sides, leos (or required unitards) with mocap polkadots... the computer can quantify leg separation or hop to the cm and then assign a known deduction number to it. Add points back for amplitude over the average. Deduct for skills performed so poorly the computer can't identify them...

I'm not sure that would actually improve the sport so maybe there is something to be said for the current (flawed) system.

 

[RAFIKI]

Romanian PM to boycott Olympic closing ceremony in gymnastics protest

Romania’s prime minister, Marcel Ciolacu, will boycott the closing ceremony of the Olympics because of the demotion of Ana Barbosu from the bronze medal position

www.theguardian.com

 

[irichluck21]

I am sorry but protesting Barbosu is ridiculous. She celebrated too early. I don't understand why the Romanians are angry about the score inquiry. They LITERALLY inquired about Voinea's score. Its hypocritical behavior.
I can see them protesting for Voinea because they want evidence of the ND being taken, which COULD have impacted the medal results.

 

[RichardL]

Why oh why couldn't Chiles have just stood up one of her double layout passes properly and spared us this

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I am sorry but protesting Barbosu is ridiculous. She celebrated too early. I don't understand why the Romanians are angry about the score inquiry. They LITERALLY inquired about Voinea's score. Its hypocritical behavior.
I can see them protesting for Voinea because they want evidence of the ND being taken, which COULD have impacted the medal results.

Yes, that's bizarre. Jordan's Gogean and thus her placing ahead of Barbosu is questionable, but Sabrina has the much stronger argument of the two here. If you're going to boycott, do it over that!

 

[rlayt]

Voinea’s group is rightly angry. I guess we. sit back and wait for an answer from TPTB.

 

[rlayt]

Exactly. Voinea has a real reason to be upset.