FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal) PART 2

[QuietColours]

What has Andy Memmel done to gain a positive impression with people? He coached his daughter, who won a World title on UB without his help. I’ve seen him make comments on Instagram before, but I forget what they were about. To me, he just seems like another coach with a huge ego.

I think many people got a positive impression of him from Chellsie's comeback videos, both in the more edited professional ones and the ones that really were mostly training clips. He comes off as generally caring, down-to-earth, and funny in those--very "midwestern dad." He also had a reputation for being relatively anti-establishment during the Marta years, and was known to do things like 'forget' his (ill fitted, ugly, everyone hated them) warm ups so none of the coaches would have to wear them. Him accusing a 17 year old who just did her job of cheating goes a bit at odds with the persona he's presented previously. Not on Instagram, so I can't speak to questionable comments he may have made there previously.

 

[QuietColours]

Especially inappropriate considering Chellsie herself was on the winning side of FIG's weird rules in 2005.

 

[Big_rock_show]

But was he accusing a 17-year-old of cheating? I interpreted it as his feelings toward the way in which the medal was awarded to her

 

[Matilda23]

Maybe there was favouritism from the judging panel and officials involved in the FX final? Sabrina given a questionable OOB deduction, Jordan had a generous (IMO) first score, the (late?) score appeal for Jordan was accepted, Jordan awarded a higher difficulty score despite the incomplete leap, Jordan’s score upgraded very quickly.

 

[MaryClare]

Maybe there was favouritism from the judging panel and officials involved in the FX final? Sabrina given a questionable OOB deduction, Jordan had a generous (IMO) first score, the (late?) score appeal for Jordan was accepted, Jordan awarded a higher difficulty score despite the incomplete leap, Jordan’s score upgraded very quickly.

There was huge favouritism towards Jordan, with the way the final had panned out. If she’d hit her routine, they’d have given her gold.

Let’s be honest, 3 scores of or around 13.7 are poor candidates for an Olympic bronze

 

[brg09]

Yes. Ana's age alone should be enough to give pause to a man so much older. There are plenty of ways he could've made vague accusations about cheating whilst ensuring he couldn't be seen as critical of a totally blameless adolescent.

Well, yeah. I'm sure that 20 years ago he wouldn't have been ok with people making similar comments about his own kid. What is so difficult about the Golden Rule?

Are you not entertained?

Sabrina announced she wasn't retiring before the appeal was heard. At that stage, she said she was asking her mother to come out of her retirement and coach her again.

Best case scenario: sabrina returns, her mom doesn't because she's so disillusioned. I'd love to see sabrina with better coaching and actually being part of the team... though this would mean we'd be deprived of camelia's amazing makeup and hair.

Especially inappropriate considering Chellsie herself was on the winning side of FIG's weird rules in 2005.

Exactly.

But was he accusing a 17-year-old of cheating? I interpreted it as his feelings toward the way in which the medal was awarded to her

I suppose you could make that distinction but I'm not sure everyone will. Really, isn't accusing someone of gaining through cheating though not cheating themselves kind of the same thing?

UNRELATED: sometimes it's hard to post with those damn pop-ups coming up at the bottom of the window. If I accidentally end up on Walmart.com one more time...!

 

[Tutto]

There was huge favouritism towards Jordan, with the way the final had panned out. If she’d hit her routine, they’d have given her gold.

Let’s be honest, 3 scores of or around 13.7 are poor candidates for an Olympic bronze

Exactly my thoughts. Sabrina scored 13.8 and 13.9 in QR and Team event, and then she downgraded one pass - a bad call of her coaching 'team' but regardless of that you kinda expect the scores go a bit higher in the final for a clean routine?
Ana on the opposite upgraded the difficulty - smart, and got her highest score. BTW I have a question she got 8.00 for her execution, quite high, she also had a step out with OOB, I thought that such a visual mistake should reflect on E score? (Still on the learning curve ha ha...)

Before the final I expected Manilla to get bronze, she has the best routine this season. Had she not a bit of meltdown the whole drama would not have happened!
I am not Jordan fan but if she performed like she did in the team event I think she would be a rightful bronze medallist, it did not happen though, it was a tired performance and landing were not great. So out of three Sabrina was the best on the night and was robbed as simple as that.

 

[MaryClare]

Exactly my thoughts. Sabrina scored 13.8 and 13.9 in QR and Team event, and then she downgraded one pass - a bad call of her coaching 'team' but regardless of that you kinda expect the scores go a bit higher in the final for a clean routine?
Ana on the opposite upgraded the difficulty - smart, and got her highest score. BTW I have a question she got 8.00 for her execution, quite high, she also had a step out with OOB, I thought that such a visual mistake should reflect on E score? (Still on the learning curve ha ha...)

Before the final I expected Manilla to get bronze, she has the best routine this season. Had she not a bit of meltdown the whole drama would not have happened!
I am not Jordan fan but if she performed like she did in the team event I think she would be a rightful bronze medallist, it did not happen though, it was a tired performance and landing were not great. So out of three Sabrina was the best on the night and was robbed as simple as that.

Sabrina’s E scores are always way too generous

 

[phoenix7]

Exactly my thoughts. Sabrina scored 13.8 and 13.9 in QR and Team event, and then she downgraded one pass - a bad call of her coaching 'team' but regardless of that you kinda expect the scores go a bit higher in the final for a clean routine?
Ana on the opposite upgraded the difficulty - smart, and got her highest score. BTW I have a question she got 8.00 for her execution, quite high, she also had a step out with OOB, I thought that such a visual mistake should reflect on E score? (Still on the learning curve ha ha...)

Before the final I expected Manilla to get bronze, she has the best routine this season. Had she not a bit of meltdown the whole drama would not have happened!
I am not Jordan fan but if she performed like she did in the team event I think she would be a rightful bronze medallist, it did not happen though, it was a tired performance and landing were not great. So out of three Sabrina was the best on the night and was robbed as simple as that.

You don't subtract the out of bounds penalty from the E score. You subtract it from the final score. So Ana got E of 8, which doesn't take any out of bounds into account. Then she lost 0.1 as a neutral deduction for one foot out of bounds, separately.

 

[Tutto]

You don't subtract the out of bounds penalty from the E score. You subtract it from the final score. So Ana got E of 8, which doesn't take any out of bounds into account. Then she lost 0.1 as a neutral deduction for one foot out of bounds, separately.

I understand that but as I mentioned before I have sort of migrated from figure skating here, and there a skater gets a deduction for a fall AND their artistic score would be down too because the fall disrupts the routine. So I expected (wrongly) something like that in AG.

 

[onodian]

I mean, my question would be, does FS really do that, if you look at exercises like yuzuru 2016 FS at worlds which was all kinds of a mess and still scored 90+ in the pcs...

BUT, we're talking ag, and gymnastics will deduct, in Ana's case, the step and the oob, so somewhere between 0.2 and 0.4, in case the step was a large one, which I seem to remember it wasn't that large. There isn't any additional penalty in artistry, although of course if she were to melt down and kind of just go through the moves for the rest of the exercise (esposito was a little bit like this in hers) they could take something for presentation.

 

[Tutto]

I mean, my question would be, does FS really do that, if you look at exercises like yuzuru 2016 FS at worlds which was all kinds of a mess and still scored 90+ in the pcs...

BUT, we're talking ag, and gymnastics will deduct, in Ana's case, the step and the oob, so somewhere between 0.2 and 0.4, in case the step was a large one, which I seem to remember it wasn't that large. There isn't any additional penalty in artistry, although of course if she were to melt down and kind of just go through the moves for the rest of the exercise (esposito was a little bit like this in hers) they could take something for presentation.

Yuzuru was always a special case, don't let me go into whys - Federation support, a GOAT status etc... but generally yes the falls do affect the second mark too it is even in the rules.

 

[phoenix7]

I mean, my question would be, does FS really do that, if you look at exercises like yuzuru 2016 FS at worlds which was all kinds of a mess and still scored 90+ in the pcs...

BUT, we're talking ag, and gymnastics will deduct, in Ana's case, the step and the oob, so somewhere between 0.2 and 0.4, in case the step was a large one, which I seem to remember it wasn't that large. There isn't any additional penalty in artistry, although of course if she were to melt down and kind of just go through the moves for the rest of the exercise (esposito was a little bit like this in hers) they could take something for presentation.

Yes. There's usually an uncontrolled element to the landing in OOB, unless they just land out on bounds. But Ana's was one small neat step.

If you are comparing their execution scores, look at Ana's landings - mostly good expect that OOB, compared with Jordan's (shakier) and Sabrina's (solid); Ana's and Jordan's form in air compared with Sabrina (loose).

Bear in mind too that there are small artistry deductions that may well have affected Sabrina (less extension for example).

The scores were very close but Ana's wasn't incredibly high. An execution score of 8 is about top ten level in quals, and you would expect most finalists to be capable of that with good choreography, on their day.

 

[irichluck21]

You don't subtract the out of bounds penalty from the E score. You subtract it from the final score. So Ana got E of 8, which doesn't take any out of bounds into account. Then she lost 0.1 as a neutral deduction for one foot out of bounds, separately.

An OOB will still reflect in the E score. While stepping out of the area is .1 or .3 neutral deduction applied by the D panel. The E panel can still take deductions such as:

• deviation from straight direction (.1)
• precision (.1)
• legs apart on landing (.1)
• lack of balance (.1)
• extra steps, slight hop (.1)
• very large step or jump (.3)
• body posture fault (.1)

She definitely would have gotten a .1 deviation from straight direction, .1 extra step, and likely .1 precision. I would have to go back and watch the routine again though to be sure.

So yeah stepping out is an automatic .1, but execution panel can still take execution deductions on the OOB.

 

[Sanzhirovka]

An OOB will still reflect in the E score. While stepping out of the area is .1 or .3 neutral deduction applied by the D panel. The E panel can still take deductions such as:

• deviation from straight direction (.1)
• precision (.1)
• legs apart on landing (.1)
• lack of balance (.1)
• extra steps, slight hop (.1)
• very large step or jump (.3)
• body posture fault (.1)

She definitely would have gotten a .1 deviation from straight direction, .1 extra step, and likely .1 precision. I would have to go back and watch the routine again though to be sure.

So yeah stepping out is an automatic .1, but execution panel can still take execution deductions on the OOB.

But all of thos deductions can be taken on acro skills that land in bounds, so ... how again is OOB reflected in the E score?

I mean, you can just as easily say OOB is reflected in the D Score, too. Because say one lands two feel OOB on a 900-punch front - with the punch front OOB, it has no value and therefore that affects the CV. No?

 

[irichluck21]

When an OOB is directly linked to deviation from straight direction, it is more obvious.

The same thing happens on vault.

 

[Tutto]

But all of thos deductions can be taken on acro skills that land in bounds, so ... how again is OOB reflected in the E score?

I mean, you can just as easily say OOB is reflected in the D Score, too. Because say one lands two feel OOB on a 900-punch front - with the punch front OOB, it has no value and therefore that affects the CV. No?

I think it should because a visible mistake like that affects an overall presentation of routine, not?

 

[phoenix7]

I think it should because a visible mistake like that affects an overall presentation of routine, not?

You could technically just land neatly out of bounds without other faults.

That's rare, so the OOB will usually be accompanied by faults that are reflected in the E score (but which could also apply to other uncontrolled landings). These faults aren't very rare either.

I think people are picking up on OOB as a major issue because the contenders for 3rd were bunched so tightly that Ana or Sabrina not having OOB penalties would have changed the whole bronze debacle. And because Simone had massive OOB penalties for stepping out with both feet, twice, which changed the order of gold and silver. But in context of the whole routine, one OOB isn't a big deal in the open code era.

But to get back to the original question about Ana Barbosu, an E score of 8 is perfectly possible when it includes the faults accompanying a small out of bounds step. She lost two points for execution somewhere, after all.

 

[MaryClare]

Didn’t Simone basically land oob without landing deductions?

 

[irichluck21]

Yes. But the step(s) or hop back in would be a deduction.