British WAG (and MAG!) talk

[MaryClare]

yes she is intending to go to the British. She looked really good I thought. Calm and collected as usual. I would say a very good first comp out for her. She's way more useful that Charlotte Booth. Alice and Ondine also looked really good and Abi Martin had improved form on floor and vault.

By the way we don't have a national 'team', we have a national squad and teams for each event are selected from that squad.

Carlos was awesome. Up close I couldn't believe how high his vaults were and how fast he sprints down the runway.

Have we established how a Filipino who lives in Japan found himself in Shropshire in the middle of World Cup season?

 

[Bob]

Have we established how a Filipino who lives in Japan found himself in Shropshire in the middle of World Cup season?

Absolutely no idea but he had his coach with him.

 

[Puffin]

Have we established how a Filipino who lives in Japan found himself in Shropshire in the middle of World Cup season?

Does he still live in Japan? I thought he split from his Japanese coach just before worlds 2023.

 

[MaryClare]

Does he still live in Japan? I thought he split from his Japanese coach just before worlds 2023.

I’m not sure.

 

[MaryClare]

Alice Sumners posted this from 2019

L-R Jessica, Ondine, Alice Sumners, Annie Young, Alia Leat, Jennifer, Ruby Stacey

 

[MaryClare]

It’s got me thinking, what happened to Annie Young. She was a beautiful gymnast, especially on bars where she was training a layout Jaeger. She was considered a top prospect and went to the EYOF. She had ambitions to do NCAA, so I’m surprised she left the sport completely

 

[Puffin]

It’s got me thinking, what happened to Annie Young. She was a beautiful gymnast, especially on bars where she was training a layout Jaeger. She was considered a top prospect and went to the EYOF. She had ambitions to do NCAA, so I’m surprised she left the sport completely

Was she one of GBs "lost lockdown gymnasts"? I think she was due to turn senior in 2020 just as the Covid restrictions hit.

 

[Bob]

Does he still live in Japan? I thought he split from his Japanese coach just before worlds

Was she one of GBs "lost lockdown gymnasts"? I think she was due to turn senior in 2020 just as the Covid restrictions hit.

no I remember she was missing from things before that.

 

[Puffin]

no I remember she was missing from things before that.

Oh really? What did she miss?

As far as I can see her last competition was EYOF at the end of July 2019.

 

[MaryClare]

Was she one of GBs "lost lockdown gymnasts"? I think she was due to turn senior in 2020 just as the Covid restrictions hit.

I’m sure she’s the same age as Jess, Jen and Ondine. She was regularly beating the twins as a junior

 

[Bob]

I’m sure she’s the same age as Jess, Jen and Ondine. She was regularly beating the twins as a junior

They didn't come through the same route though and came up to british level late so that's not surprising.

 

[Bob]

Oh really? What did she miss?

As far as I can see her last competition was EYOF at the end of July 2019.

I can't remember off the top of my head but Im thinking she had injuries and kind of disappeared. People kept asking where she was.

 

[RedBirdie]

They didn't come through the same route though and came up to british level late so that's not surprising.

What was different about the route the Gadirovas and Ondine took to reach elite? I'm admittedly not super familiar with the different options and how one progresses through the British system.

 

[MaryClare]

What was different about the route the Gadirovas and Ondine took to reach elite? I'm admittedly not super familiar with the different options and how one progresses through the British system.

To become an elite gymnast, which gives you the eternal right to compete at the British championships, you have to pass all your “national levels”. These consist of compulsory routines on each apparatus, plus a 5th score which is a range and conditioning set.

To progress through the levels “in age”, you need to pass L4 at 9, L3 at 10 and L2 at 11. After that, you’re considered an elite gymnast and can compete in the 12/13 category at British championships.

The progression is reasonably tough. Level 2 is roughly Level 9 in the US, but level 3 is about a 7. So you’re doing more than a grade per year.

Of course, not every gymnast with the potential to become an elite is ready for level 4 at 9 years old. Especially if they’ve come to the sport “later”. And of course, injuries can mean not passing the grade, or having to sit out a year all together. You can then pick up where you left off the next season, but you’ll be what’s called “out of age”.

Very, very few national squad members have ever qualified elite out of age. The system massively discourages out of age gymnasts from continuing. You aren’t eligible for medals and the whole thing feels like you’ve been held back a grade in school. A good number move onto other gymnastic disciplines.

As far as I know, both Jennifer and Jessica passed all their levels in age, but were not standout gymnasts and were quite far down the table. That age group (2004) was dominated by Ondine, Annie Young and Halle Hilton. Each level had a national final where the different BG regions field a team. One of the the most exciting seasons was the 2003 Level 2 Optionals- Becky Downie, Becky Wing, Laura Jones and Hannah Whelan.

Can anyone think of someone who qualified elite out of age and went on to represent GB internationally? I want to say Kelly Simm?
@Bob @ArnoldRimmer @RAFIKI @Angelika

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Can't help you on that one I'm afraid

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

To become an elite gymnast, which gives you the eternal right to compete at the British championships, you have to pass all your “national levels”. These consist of compulsory routines on each apparatus, plus a 5th score which is a range and conditioning set.

To progress through the levels “in age”, you need to pass L4 at 9, L3 at 10 and L2 at 11. After that, you’re considered an elite gymnast and can compete in the 12/13 category at British championships.

The progression is reasonably tough. Level 2 is roughly Level 9 in the US, but level 3 is about a 7. So you’re doing more than a grade per year.

Of course, not every gymnast with the potential to become an elite is ready for level 4 at 9 years old. Especially if they’ve come to the sport “later”. And of course, injuries can mean not passing the grade, or having to sit out a year all together. You can then pick up where you left off the next season, but you’ll be what’s called “out of age”.

Very, very few national squad members have ever qualified elite out of age. The system massively discourages out of age gymnasts from continuing. You aren’t eligible for medals and the whole thing feels like you’ve been held back a grade in school. A good number move onto other gymnastic disciplines.

As far as I know, both Jennifer and Jessica passed all their levels in age, but were not standout gymnasts and were quite far down the table. That age group (2004) was dominated by Ondine, Annie Young and Halle Hilton. Each level had a national final where the different BG regions field a team. One of the the most exciting seasons was the 2003 Level 2 Optionals- Becky Downie, Becky Wing, Laura Jones and Hannah Whelan.

Can anyone think of someone who qualified elite out of age and went on to represent GB internationally? I want to say Kelly Simm?
@Bob @ArnoldRimmer @RAFIKI @Angelika

That is a very surprisingly strict timeline! That seems like it severely limits the eligible pool of gymnasts. What is the thought behind that?

 

[KorbutFan]

That is a very surprisingly strict timeline! That seems like it severely limits the eligible pool of gymnasts. What is the thought behind that?

..and surely it’s time to change it.

 

[MaryClare]

That is a very surprisingly strict timeline! That seems like it severely limits the eligible pool of gymnasts. What is the thought behind that?

It is. I’m not sure of the logic behind it, but it’s the main reason that GB severely lacks in depth. Even of the 30 odd gymnasts who pass the elite grade in age, maybe 3 of them go on to represent GB internationally. Around half will stick around, competing in national competitions, particularly if they have Scottish/welsh/northern Irish eligibility or have ambitions to do NCAA. But the rest just disappear after their first British championship. Sometimes you’ll see the odd one pop up and excel in another discipline, but that’s less common than it used to be.

 

[MaryClare]

It is. I’m not sure of the logic behind it, but it’s the main reason that GB severely lacks in depth. Even of the 30 odd gymnasts who pass the elite grade in age, maybe 3 of them go on to represent GB internationally. Around half will stick around, competing in national competitions, particularly if they have Scottish/welsh/northern Irish eligibility or have ambitions to do NCAA. But the rest just disappear after their first British championship. Sometimes you’ll see the odd one pop up and excel in another discipline, but that’s less common than it used to be.

Actually I think there might now be a grade 1 that you do age 13? It’s been a long time since I coached in GB. Anyway, it’s a system that needs massive reform in light of new guidelines about training hours for children, and the trend of the sport towards older athletes and longer careers. GB is still making gymnasts test elite at 11/12 years old. You don’t really have an option, since National development squads are all in age competitors.

 

[RedBirdie]

Insane. I'm not saying every country has a Jade Carey hiding in non-elite tracks, but by being so restrictive, GB is definitely missing any Jade Careys that might be there.

I think the Australian system is similar. Very restrictive, focused on being at a specific level at a certain (young!) age, and if you're not, you're off the elite track. Too bad, so sad, you'll never represent Australia internationally.

For all the faults of the US system, I cheered when they made the decision that the earliest one could test elite is age 12 season. The increased popularity of Hopes has negated that, imo, but no longer can 10 and 11 year olds compete junior elite. We've seen more gymnasts not even attempt elite until they're 14, and even some until they're senior eligible. I do love that just because you didn't test elite at 12 years old doesn't mean the door to do so on the future is closed.