2023 Winter Cup

[lovegymnasts]

Can someone please judge Roberson’s bar? I’m trying to understand her E score of 5.75. I saw some missed handstands and some separation of legs and, of course, the fall but a 5?

 

[xxParkerxx]

She fell from a dead swing so maybe that’s part of it? Not a judge but I think that’d be a deduction. Possibility she went overtime or something? Again, NOT a judge.

 

[irichluck21]

I haven’t watched the routine yet…but @Doug1233 can probably give you his score and breakdown.
I know we were texting and both of us were surprised that the judges were being very strict. Bars especially seem to be much more strict than the other events.

When I have a chance I’ll score it. But I am notoriously bad at judging bars. I am more of a 3 event judge. Call me the Sacramone of WWGYM judging.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

The Mustafina always seems like a skill quite conducive to minimising built in deductions, if a gymnast can perform it consistently. I didn’t like the knee twanging landing though.

 

[Bob]

I would deduct every single skill she has on bars. Even the simple moves like a toe on and giant have bent arms and poor body shape. Her turns are so late I am surprised they count at all. Everything is chucked, wanged and muscled with legs apart, poor shapes, flex feet and bent arms. I don’t know why she doesn’t go back to basics and and try and learn to do things correctly. Poor coaching to allow a routine like that. I think a 5 was reasonable. I really hope they don’t put that out on the international stage. That would be awful.

 

[MaryClare]

Everything. Yes. Yes yes yes

 

[KristyJ]

She misses every handstand, and has bent arms on I think every kch
I don’t really blame Laurent for this, the gym she came from about six months ago did not teach her great basics and she’s in a reworking phase. I find it likely they had to do some work to construct an elite routine that works for her even a bit, and I imagine they knew it would not be ready in early season.
I honestly wonder if she has the shoulder flexibility for a proper handstand right now, without bending her arms, and something like that does not get fixed quickly

 

[RedBirdie]

I don’t think she has the shoulder flexibility. Hard to know for sure because the camera angles aren’t great, but at no point does she ever look extended through the shoulders, on any event. She’s getting things around because she’s powerful. Even her Onodi, her shoulders don’t look open. I’m somewhat in awe, and equally horrified, by that.

 

[MaryClare]

Her hand placement on the onodi suggests extremely poor shoulder flexibility. Im amazed they have her doing this skill. It cannot be worth it

 

[lovegymnasts]

I have to disagree on the flexed feet on everything. I think she has pretty good feet with a random flex here and there. There are many gymnasts with worse. Bent arms, late turns, and leg separation, I see and hand shuffling.

 

[Doug1233]

I had a 5.4. It was just multiple issues on every single skill. I think she hit one or two handstands. All her turns were late. 3s and 5s. Bent arms. Loose back. Her tkatchev was dumpy. Lots of leg form. This is what happens when you don’t learn basics and the Code starts to penalise basics.

Her routine is too long. She’s not Nastia. Every second on the bar she’s bleeding deductions. She needs to count Bs and Cs and get off the fucking bar. Her dismount was the best skill in the routine.

 

[MaryClare]

She needs to count Bs and Cs and get off the fucking bar

People underestimate the usefulness of this approach. It got Aly Raisman an Olympic AA medal

 

[Doug1233]

There also comes a point at which the full pirouette CR for 0.5 isn’t worth doing. Leg sep; bent knee; bent arm; and 0.3 late turn - makes counting a Toe On to handstand, or even just a kip, mathematically preferable.

You could build her a routine for a reliable 12.0 without the risk of destroying her AA prospects with a ten.

 

[tempest]

Doug1233:

She needs to count Bs and Cs and get off the fucking bar

People underestimate the usefulness of this approach. It got Aly Raisman an Olympic AA medal

It’s been a while but I thought Aly counted 7 Ds and only one C in her UB routine

 

[MaryClare]

Ok, I might be exaggerating slightly. But getting off the bar as quickly as possible was definitely Aly’s strategy

 

[Doug1233]

It got Aly Raisman an Olympic AA medal

The judging for Aly’s bars in Rio isn’t the best example tbh. That 8.8 in prelims was positively blasphemous.

 

[Doug1233]

Laurent did yell at her “get off get off” when she botched the clear hip half. I wonder if they took for that. It was clear coaching. You shouldn’t be able to get away with that.

I would have her learn a Shap 1/2 and then have her do this:

Shap - Tkatchev 0.2

Giant 1/2 - Ezhova

Shap 1/2 (new skill but learn it)

Toe

Clear Hip

DLO

DD2BDECCD2 no turn CR = 4.8

A 7.2 E would make a 12.0. She should work on making this routine as reliable as possible, and move on to her strengths.

 

[Bob]

Im sure it won’t be internationally

 

[Bob]

wow those are awful photos. The legs bent and apart, bent arms all the time, body shape and technically awful. They should have had her skip bars until she could do a basic routine correctly.

 

[KristyJ]

Gymnasts had to compete AA to qualify to nationals via the Winter Cup, correct?
So she had to do bars for that purpose

I have a feeling this routine is aspirational. They probably sat down and thought long and hard about what they might be able to work towards for nationals with the long run in mind. And why not compete it and get the feedback they need to further work on it? She really doesn’t lose anything for trying it out.