2023 Week 5 (January 30-February 5)

[irichluck21]

@Sasha

 

[blake]

Like how judges have to be within 0.2 of each other, it might help to narrow that range when one throws a 10. Anything more than 0.05 and they should absolutely have to discuss how one of them found .1-1.5 tenths and the other nothing.

 

[blake]

I wasn’t even aware that was a thing, but even the NAWGJ agrees. Discontinuing coach selection is listed as one of their goals here:

https://nawgj.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Judges-Assigning-System-Guide-for-2023-Season-Final.pdf

I’m confused, though, b/c if the NAWGJ wants to address this issue, and they say the goals on page 1 were proposed by the WCGA, then I don’t understand why it’s still a thing. Is it an NCAA level policy? I can’t imagine they would consider that fair. The regional assigners mentioned in the file, are they randomly assigned to the school, or does the school hire that person? If the latter, that feels like a major conflict of interest to me.

 

[irichluck21]

Like how judges have to be within 0.2 of each other, it might help to narrow that range when one throws a 10. Anything more than 0.05 and they should absolutely have to discuss how one of them found .1-1.5 tenths and the other nothing.

I think it should be changed from .2 to .15.
Yes a 10.0 vs a 9.850 is pretty glaring, but also a 9.650 vs a 9.8 is also glaring. A 9.650 is a low score and one teams generally want to drop, whereas a 9.800 might be a score some of the top teams want to drop but other teams would want to keep. A 9.725 average score could be the difference between a win and a loss.

The CoP is not crazy, if many of us non-certified judges can accurately score NCAA routines, these judges should be able to correctly score routines.

Mati Waligora’s floor routine is a gross example of blatant cheating by the judge that awarded her a 10.0. Another 10.0 given to Hudson with a noticeable error. Then went low 9.950 for Luisa Blanco, whom IMO was the only one capable of 10.
Judge 1 is who I am most in line with, though I have them
Waligora 9.650
Adams 9.850
Doggette 9.700
Gladieux 9.900
Hudson 9.900
Blanco 9.950

49.700 is ridiculous for that floor rotation, it is .3 to .4 too high and not only was the difference in deciding this meet in terms of win/loss, but also has impacted the rankings both in team and on floor.
Waligora here



I had .3 on the first line: .1 insufficient rotation on twisting elements, .1 cross over step with right foot, .1 step forward with left foot. It was NOT a controlled landing, nor perfectly executed.
Then I took .05 for the landing/small hop/stutter with right foot after the front layout in the dismount combo.
There is no way this routine can get into the 9.900s, let alone a 10.000. Even giving it a 9.800 is unacceptable IMO.
One might say well it is an E element in combination…but we have seen various NCAA athletes do a layout to front double full with better precision. It isn’t like it is a triple full (at the end of a routine no less, YES YOU Haley De Jong) where you might excuse a bit of precision due to the immense difficulty of the skill and the fact it is done at the end.

 

[RedBirdie]

I found these two posts from a former NCAA judge on CGN to be very interesting
Judge’s Inquiry: Breaking Down January’s Perfect 10s
Judge’s Inquiry: Comparing Yurchenko Fulls Across the Country

 

[irichluck21]

D2 and D3 terms generally get higher scores on Yurchenko Fulls because they are generally the most difficult vaults being seen at that level and often times we see Yurchenko Layouts as the more used vault.

 

[cuuf]

I agree with you, except for that last sentence. It doesn’t matter, or at least it shouldn’t when an athlete does a skill for the judge. The judge is there to evaluate the execution of a skill against some determined standard. If one is willing to allow emotional evaluation of skill then we will always have issues with scoring.

 

[makam]

They could institute a bonus system that adds to execution if the move is done after a certain point like Figure Skating does. Oh, you threw a Moors as your last pass, bonus that might erase any earlier errors. Oh, you messed up that Moors as your last pass, bonus not available, please try again.

 

[cuuf]

This is true! Dont they do that now? I thought I keep hearing them say during the meets that with all the 2 pass routines they get a bonus if they do a D or higher pass as their last pass? So give them the bonus, but take the deduction if it is a sloppy execution.

 

[makam]

No, the bonus is to get them up to the 10 start value without having to do so many skills (to be up-to-level). Everything you do can be deducted, nothing you do (in either elite or ncaa) adds to your execution score.

There is no advantage in doing an Amanar over a Y1.5 unless you land it better or something. No reason to do a DTY either unless your execution is superior on it. That said, it is suggested that the judges will become a little blind to minor errors if you are going so far above requirements. But they also become a little blind if you wear a particular team leo too, so…

 

[irichluck21]

This is true! Dont they do that now? I thought I keep hearing them say during the meets that with all the 2 pass routines they get a bonus if they do a D or higher pass as their last pass? So give them the bonus, but take the deduction if it is a sloppy execution.

Not quite.
If the do a double flipping salto as a last pass they get a .1 bonus.
If they do an E skill as a last pass they also get a .1 bonus.
So Haleigh Bryant doing a front 2/1 last pass gets .1 bonus, and Haley De Jong doing a triple full last pass gets a .1 bonus.

A back 5/2 or a rudi (both D skills) as a last pass would not get the .1 bonus even though they are D skills like the double tuck and the double pike.

 

[blake]

A bonus for Ramler quality toepoint would be nice, and the chaos that would ensue from giving the judges the ability to give bonus outside of the skill/combo bonuses would probably be equal parts funny and frustrating.

 

[makam]

Trinity Thomas and Leanne Wong score the first perfect 10.4s in ncaa history!

 

[blake]

I think Adriana Popp’s pike 1/2 is my favorite currently done outside of Bryant. Somehow it looks nicer to me that she grabs her legs.



Some event totals of note from this weekend: Boise 49.4 on VT, Pitt 49.4 on UB, Ohio St 49.525 on BB(!), UC Davis 49.525 on FX. I haven’t seen any of these rotations yet, but the regionals race is getting more and more interesting.

 

[Bob]

I’m a big Lindenwood fan. They do so well.

 

[blake]

It’s beginning to look like another season of bars keeping Nebraska out of regionals. It’s hard to break 196 when you’re stuck in the 48s on UB.

Karina Muñoz has starpower.

Judges could be a little tougher on shaposhs with leg separation on release/back swing imo. The camera view makes it so obvious most of the time, and it looks so much better with legs glued together.

 

[irichluck21]

It’s beginning to look like another season of bars keeping Nebraska out of regionals. It’s hard to break 196 when you’re stuck in the 48s on UB.

It is clear that Heather Brink was an excellent student athlete but has no business being a head coach of a power 5 team.

The Cornhuskers went from national team finals in 2018, to not making it out of regionals in 2019, to not qualifying for regionals in 2021 or 2022 and likely 2023 once we see NQS factor in.

14th in 2019 when she took over
19th before 2020 COVID cancellations.

39th in 2021.
38th in 2022.
Neither of those years making regionals.

It isn’t like Nebraska doesn’t have talent.

Bars (45th) isn’t the only area of concern. They are ranked 41st on floor.

Brink is a good beam coach though, the team’s highest ranking in 23rd overall.

The team isn’t without talent either, just appears to be mismanaged. Other coaches are doing more with less.

Either Brink needs to go or Brian Amato, their bars coach has to go. Granted there is no overabundance of good bars coaches in the NCAA at the moment.

 

[blake]

Yeah, considering how much $ was poured into the new training facility, it’s stark compared to what a team like Cal has accomplished. Getting stronger recruits isn’t even the biggest problem, but the impression the mismanagement and whiplash of the rankings drop kinda sours the massive recruiting advantage their state of the art gym gives them.

I wonder how long they’ll wait to shake up the coaching roster. Nebraska does have a chance to right the ship, but it’s looking like its gonna be contingent on going 196.5+ in every meet from here on out. They’re a stronger team than Lindenwood/SEMO and similar to Towson, all teams that have outpeaked them so far. A bit concerning that it’s week 5 and it’s a different problem making the score unusable each week. They’re running out of drop meets and they only have 2 more opportunities for NQS padding home meets.