2022 World Gymnastics Championships WAG All Around Final (Thursday 11/03)

[Doug1233]

The L hop is def. a body shape deduction…even if we ignore the leg, her arms/upper body never get into a nice position…

I’ve been told several times that it was offensive and discriminatory when I’ve said that Chiles (and certain other gymnasts) doesn’t show an aesthetic position in her dance elements. It creates an environment where the only “right answer” for the Twitter mob is to pile-on the girl that beat her.

It happens over and over again.

 

[Doug1233]

There’s a fairly vocal group on social media

They are, if anything, vocal.

 

[GymBeauty]

Gadirova’s sillyvas has .8 that can be taken - crossed legs in the first salto, leg separation in the second salto, flexed feet throughout, feet apart when landing, posture on landing, .3 step.

Her leaps and artistry also get more credit than they deserve. Those are the main problems I see. @YurchenkoLoop you were right to take .1 off for musicality, the routine doesn’t have enough to do with the music, it’s really a lot of quite flail-y movements just done for the sake of it.

From 2006-2017, a bent knee on the forward swing on switch type dance elements actually also resulted in the skill being downgraded.

That doesn’t have to do with deductions though. There’s nothing that says the position going into a leap should be judged by the E-panel in the same way as the position of the leap itself, and historical E-scores were certainly not taking .3 off for a bent knee entry. If anything it’s a .1 “unaesthetic position” deduction if the entry looks particularly glaring.

Look at Gadirova’s knee going into her Gogean (this pic is from Nationals because the angle is better, but it’s the same at Worlds):

The judges definitely didn’t deduct .3 for it, nor did @Doug1233 despite trying to make this into a thing and punishing other people for it. Jordan actually has a straight leg going into her Gogean, by the way:

If Jess was consistently overscored throughout worlds then that would involves how many different panels of judges?!

That’s exactly what reputation/political influence is. The favorites who are anointed as “the chosen ones” get universally held up because of talk about how they deserve it or are the cream of the field. Judges don’t want to look wrong, so everyone falls in line with the general feeling of how a particular athlete is “supposed” to score.

 

[Doug1233]

There’s no point.

 

[rlayt]

There’s no point.

TOO TRUE.

 

[GymBeauty]

There’s no point in judging fairly? Amazing thinking going on in here.

 

[makam]

That was a…leap. .1 precision deduction at least.

…wasn’t referring to gymnastics.

 

[GymBeauty]

Which one are you referring to?

 

[rlayt]

Your hyperbole is whack. Your idea of judging fairly isn’t in line with the ideas of a lot of other people. While there’s room in the fandom for different opinions I’m tired of your arguments and absolute certitude that you are right and everyone else is wrong about the floor final. If you want to think you are the only one judging fairly what does that say?

 

[GymBeauty]

Hyperbole?? Where. I never said “everyone else is wrong” either. It’s not even possible to say that, since there are many people who agree with me. “Everyone else” isn’t in agreement about Gadirova’s scores being correct, as you are trying to twist it. You’ve written a series of micro-aggressions and dismissals of other opinions throughout this thread, and now you outright lie about what has been said and accuse me of irrationality? Unacceptable.

I’ve given very level-headed, informed reasoning and detailed evidence. I’ve never said someone else can’t express their opinion, nor that mine is absolute. Let’s look at the facts:

1.) The judges at the competition credited Gadirova for an underrotated leap, while discrediting someone else who performed it with similar/same rotation.

2.) Someone is trying to argue bent knee on leap entries should be deducted the same as leap positions. I’ve argued that’s not the historical standard and it’s not what the rules state. When presented with the fact that Gadirova has a major form issue when going by their standard, they condescendingly ignored it. That is exactly unfair, as is point #1!

3.) Gadirova has .8 possible deduction on a skill and various other issues that have been pointed out by knowledgeable observers. It’s been argued judges are treating her more leniently than others, and some people here seem to be happily overlooking flaws, while trying to make it sound like any differing opinion is nothing but “uneducated social media mobbing”.

It’s valid to have lengthy debates and assert your opinion or why someone else’s may be flawed. Just because I disagree with something that doesn’t mean it’s a declaration of war. I want my own opinion to be as well defined and educated as possible. We are on a message board and hopefully one that values in-depth discussion. I respect anyone who takes the time to meaningfully contribute and hopefully that feeling will be shared, rather than wasting space with useless insults and misdirections.

 

[Doug1233]

Let’s look at the facts:

Your post would be fine if any of those three things were facts.

 

[rlayt]

There’s no point in judging fairly? Amazing thinking going on in here.

You are telling us that your analysis is the fair one. There’s no back and forth with you. It’s not a conversation, it’s you telling people you are the one that’s right.

I’m leaving it at that.

 

[GymBeauty]

There’s no back and forth with you. It’s not a conversation

In any debate it is the job of each person to present their points and defend them. That isn’t me “telling people I am the only one who is right.” My opinion changes if someone gives me reason to think differently. I’m very open to hearing what everyone thinks.

In my viewpoint you have been shutting down conversation. I name high profile athletes and experts who share an opinion and you literally said their opinions and my own don’t matter. I go to great length to explain points in detail and you gloss over it. You make false accusations towards me and I call you out on it and ask you to explain, but you don’t, and continue to try and vilify rather than engage in the points.

Your post would be fine if any of those three things were facts.

They are facts, and these empty retorts add nothing. Argue your opposing opinion, how is it wrong? You don’t have any authority to blankly make statements like this.

 

[Doug1233]

1. Chiles didn’t have the same rotation on her Gogean. Jess’ Gogean was closer.
2. Don’t use a screencap of a completely different meet. You told me off for doing the exact same thing with Chunsong. The video I used to judge EF clearly showed a knee bend with Chiles. It didn’t with Jess. I can only judge what I see in the video.
3. 0.8 off on Jess’s Silivas is DELUSIONAL. No-one agrees with you. And coming from the same person who would take 1 tenth total for Chunsong’s entire second pass in Rio, is absolutely hilarious.

So yeah. None of those 3 things were facts. But it doesn’t matter what I say; you’ll blindly argue against it anyway.

 

[GymBeauty]

1.) Yes Chiles does have pretty much the same rotation on her Gogean. You don’t seem to be looking at Jess’ feet very closely. Either way, Jess’ gogean was factually short and should not have been credited. Don’t dodge the point that matters - you even said she shouldn’t have been credited! WHY are you arguing about it?

2.) Jess does the big knee bend EVERY time on her Gogean. I explicitly stated I was using a better angle so it would be clear. If you look at her EF, the knee bend is there all the same. You are again trying to strawman your way out, seemingly because this evidence means you would have to lower Jess’ score on every Floor routine when using your standard for leaps, which would then simultaneously put you in agreement with me about Jess being constantly overscored.

3.) Jess’ Silivas factually has .8 that could be taken. There is nothing delusional about it whatsoever, you are just being ignorant. I pointed out every deduction and you have done nothing to disprove it. Another judge here took .7 on her Silivas. Why are you not calling them delusional too? You have a huge attitude problem with me proving you wrong, and your take on Chungsong’s excellent acro series is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[onodian]

There’s a full thread that mc generously made for circular discussions that don’t get anywhere. Let’s use that. I can go in and do komova London aa fx to start us off if you like.

 

[Doug1233]

There’s no point.

Aaaand my point exactly.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

We’ve not had a really bad tempered and simultaneously completely predictable Sydney AA discussion since the old board died either, although I was saving that for the off season lull.

 

[Hatsumomo]

I think we’re about due for another go-round with the debate over Shawn’s Amanar and resultant AA silver.

 

[arabiandoublefront]

I just don’t want to think about 2008 anymore tbh, except Michael Phelps’s eight golds in one Olympics and USA MAG overachieving.