2022 World Gymnastics Championships WAG All Around Final (Thursday 11/03)

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If Jess was consistently overscored throughout worlds then that would involves how many different panels of judges?! No one likes her that much, not even Doug likes her that much. Probably Jennifer doesn’t even like her that much. And it would require Lidia Ivanova levels of wheeler dealing
It isn’t like she wasn’t getting these types of scores earlier this year either.

She is European FX champion with a score of 14.000 and that is with .3 less in D score.
She also scored over 14 numerous times at domestic meets.

Really not understanding the whole, Jess was over scored at Worlds scenario.

Personally, I think part of the reason that this is happening is because Great Britain did an outstanding job at Worlds, something that was not really expected of them. They ended up peaking at Worlds, which is interesting considering how often they competed this year.
 
I think Jess was deserving etc but saying that judges don’t prop up particular gymnasts is an interesting counterpoint to the many things we’ve all had to say about Raisman and Skinner over the last ten years. I mean it does happen.
 
Raisman and Skinner over the last ten years
I guess the difference there was that the judges often blindly ignored some very obvious deductions. That isn’t the case with Jessica. I’ve yet to see an E Score breakdown, side by side with Jordan, that makes a realistic and convincing case that she was substantively overscored.

We saw tons of them with Raisman and Skinner (and Paseka on vault in particular).
 
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irichluck21:
She is European FX champion with a score of 14.000 and that is with .3 less in D score.
And the twitter gworls were mad about that one, tew.
Jessica Gadirova has been around the 14s for several years in International competition - but her D score was lower - but this isn’t a domestic thing

She’s twice European fx Champion - 2021 Switzerland 13.966 (5.5/8.466) and 2022 Germany 14.00 (5.7/8.3)

… and she scored 14.00 (5.6/8.4) at the Tokyo Olympics
 
When someone is overscored by .2-.3 on every apparatus in a competition, that makes a huge difference. Even on a single apparatus it matters, especially in an event final. You seem to be waving it off it because you’re a Jess fanboy.
I’m really not. I had Alice ahead of Jess in the AA, by my own scores.

In my predictions, post-podium training, I had Jess barely making AA and EF FX. Go look in the British WAG talk thread. Far from a “Jess fanboy”.

And it’s your opinion that she was overscored by 2 or 3 tenths on every event. It is my opinion that she was overscored on beam, but we have discussed at length as to why the judges in the arena had her much higher than what we gave her by watching a 2D screen. The posters on this forum who were actually in the arena made multiple comments about her height and amplitude, too.

You seem to enjoy throwing out these wild and baseless thoughts without any substantiation.
 
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Jess Gadirova
Pause before Silivas .1
Silivas - leg separation, foot form, precision of foot placement on landing, low chest, large step .7
Pause before DLO 1/1 .1
DLO 1/1 leg separation, hop .2 (the hop is actually .3 with slow-mo review it seems, but her trunk position disguised this in real-time for me)
Switch ring - height of back foot .1 (borderline but it’s not quite there. Actually looks better in slow-mo I thought, altho the height is fantastic!)
Switch 1/1 - split position/alignment, precision of feet on landing .2 (she bends her knee into the skill and her ankle makes 90 degrees of flexion before the switch, but I only noticed this with a slow-mo review)
Pause in corner .1
Double tuck - flexed feet, open position, loss of balance, large slide on landing .6
Artistry: .1 poor expressive engagement according to the style of the music for the moonwalk moment. I’m gatekeeping. (It’s borderline but her feet are somewhat relaxed too.)

Total: 7.8

Jordan Chiles
Mukhina - foot form, leg separation, hop .3
Pause before DLO 1/1 .1
DLO 1/1 - Hop .1
Double wolf turn - Pause, bent knee .2 (some degree of bent knee torque is required but often times we see excess of it)
(Hop L 1/1 - no deduction, but the foot is borderline, on the takeoff there’s some ankle flexion – slow-mo reviewed this one)
Strug - split position, amplitude, foot precision on landing .3
Johnson 1/2 - bent knee, hop .2
Pause in corner .1
Double tuck - foot form, feet precision on landing, hop .5
Artistry: .1 for insufficient involvement of the body parts.

Total: 8.1. I had her .1 higher judging the FX EF in real time.

I think it could’ve gone either way
 
Gadirova



No deduction for a pause. It is clearly not 2 seconds.
Silivas - 0.1 legs; 0.1 chest; 0.3 step
Chuso - 0.1 leg separation; 0.1 step
Switch Ring - 0.1 body shape (foot at head height)
Gogean (attempt) - 0.1 body shape (bent knee); 0.1 precision - short (controlled lunge, no off-balance deduction)
Switch Full - 0.1 body shape (not quite 180; feet/legs not perfect); 0.1 feet apart on landing (again, controlled lunge, no off-balance deduction)
Popa - No deduction
0.1 pause
Front Full - 0.1 legs crossed/slight knee bend
Double Tuck - 0.1 feet; 0.1 body posture; 0.3 hop back
Artistry - 0.0

Total = 1.9 in deductions, 8.1 E Score

Chiles




Back 3/2 - this is slightly better than Jess’, I could take a tenth for legs here, as I did for Jess, but benefit to gymnast, no deduction
Full In - 0.1 leg separation; 0.1 small hop
I could take an adjustment/pause deduction here - she brings the foot back without choreography, which is a clear adjustment deduction, and she is slow, almost but not quite in pause territory, but I’ll take it as a part of my artistry below, no deduction
Chuso - 0.1 legs; 0.1 hop
Excessive prep before Wolf Turn - 0.1
Double Wolf - 0.1 body shape; 0.1 balance (she is so high in the turn position, I’d like to give a 3 for body shape because it is just so unaesthetic to me, but benefit to gymnast, just the 1)
L Hop 1/1 - she doesn’t have the best feet here, and she’s not above horizontal for the full turn, so there’s a potential for precision here, but again benefit to gymnast on both aspects, no deduction
Gogean (attempt) - 0.1 body shape; 0.1 precision - short; 0.1 feet apart on landing
Switch Side Half - 0.3 body shape (clear almost 90 degree knee bend in the free leg); 0.1 balance adjustment/hop (not a controlled lunge)
Again, this is poor corner work. It’s not quite long enough for a pause deduction, but take as part of artistry below
Front Lay - really borderline bent knee deduction here, but again, benefit to gymnast
Double Tuck - 0.1 feet; 0.1 body posture; 0.3 large hop
Artistry - 0.2 (poor footwork - this is clear, IMO, and I didn’t take it for a couple of elements and instead took the holistic artistry deduction; poor choreography in the corner/lack of variety, as explained above)

Total = 2.1 in deductions, 7.9 E Score (in real time I had an 8.0).

I’ve been more than fair to Chiles here. Given “benefit to gymnast” on multiple occasions. Re-watching the routines now, its actually even clearer to me that Jess was the superior routine here. Jess’ Gogean (which I would have downgraded, same as Chiles) was also much closer to being rotated than Chiles’. Everyone saying Chiles should have won needs to study the Switch Side 1/2 a little closer. Maybe I’m a purist, but that is the clearest 0.3 body shape deduction:

image


image


That is not a “slight” knee bend.
 
Ouch yeah, that is… not pretty. I really hope Chellsie can get the US programme to start thinking more critically about and addressing dance elements.
 
Huh. I alwas thought it was the apex of the skill where those came into play, but bent knees are deducted at any point of a bhs, so i guess that makes sense.
 
With Jordan, it’s probably bad technique that is so ingrained at this point that it would be near impossible to fix.

That screenshot is also just highlighting how badly Jordan cheats the switch side half. Her body is already twisting before her foot has left the floor!
 
From 2006-2017, a bent knee on the forward swing on switch type dance elements actually also resulted in the skill being downgraded.
 
Thanks @Concorde. Would you also give Chiles a 3 for the bent knee in the Switch Side 1/2? Just want to make sure i’m deducting errors in the free leg correctly, going forward.
 
Would you also give Chiles a 3 for the bent knee in the Switch Side 1/2? Just want to make sure i’m deducting errors in the free leg correctly, going forward.
If you saw it in real time, you have every right to deduct it. I also took .3 for her body shape on the wolf turn in rewatch, she bent her knee to start the turn and the shape during the turn wasn’t great. Of course that’s not the score I put into the spread sheet.
 
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I really wanted to give the wolf turn a 3 but after all the back and forth we have had about it on the forum, including accusations that I am being unfair to Chiles based on her body type, I gave it a 1 for benefit to gymnast. She is so high in the turn. And her knee is bent on the entrance. Being that high requires less quad strength compared to a true pistol/wolf squat position. Personally for me, it’s really unaesthetic.

As for the switch side half, they have her position it in the back corner of the floor area, diagonally from the judges, and have positioned her body such that the bent knee is almost fully obscured by her torso as she enters the leap, from the view of the judges. They’re all now on one diagonal, rather than seated around the floor area.

Very clever move by Laurent.

I think it’s difficult to give Chiles an 8+ E Score and also a 3 for the Switch Side Half. It just doesn’t fit in unless you’re forgiving a lot of other obvious errors. For that reason, I don’t think the judges are seeing it at all. She has an excellent straddle position, in the latter part of the element, which gives a great overall impression to the leap.
 
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The L hop is def. a body shape deduction…even if we ignore the leg, her arms/upper body never get into a nice position…

I think Chiles’ routine as a whole looks a lot less exhausting than Gadirova’s. Jessica seems to need every last bit of power when she runs into her tumbles while Jordan looks much more at ease with them. I understand that fans, without knowing enough about the rules, think Jordan was better. I wished we had judges as co-commentators…other sports have complicated rules too…there is no reason to keep pretending gymnastics rules are impossible to understand for fans.
 
I’m wary of assuming that fans as a cohort thought Jordan was the better of the two. There’s a fairly vocal group on social media, that’s all we really know. I’m not sure how representative they are of the diversity of opinion even just on twitter, let alone the sport.
 

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