2022 World Gymnastics Championships WAG All Around Final (Thursday 11/03)

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The current athletes have signed in agreement with the problem too
Which ones? Where do they say things? You’ve quoted one tweet from Heath Thorpe who was giving an opinion. He wasn’t judging using the COP. He wasn’t offering anything other than how he felt about it. You keep dancing around the black and white, the who and what.

Which commentators? They say lots of things in general and rarely say anything technical. It’s one of my complaints for the last 30 years.

You think you know and have the key. Why don’t you tell us what you think can fix what you think is wrong and how to do it. That would be more helpful.

These discussions about gymnastics judging, COP etc occur every few months. There has to be technical rules or it’s entertainment not sport.

I’m honestly tired of hearing on social media about how people felt so and so wasn’t worthy of winning. Feelings.
 
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I was hunting for some judging breakdown of E score for Chiles and Jessica in the FX EF thread but I couldn’t find any. Am I being blind again?

ETA
I’ve been debating scores with people and they are fixated on Gadirova’s tuck shape and crossed legs on her 2X2X. You can argue that you want the COP to treat it more harshly but not that one move invalidates her win without considering every other deduction.
 
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FIG doesn’t release individually breakdowns so that we know how much the official judges take for error? We’re still in the dark about Tokyo?

We just have totals.
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Gadirova’s tuck shape
You can tell them definitively that there is no deduction for this. An open tuck in a double salto with twists is not deductible. Crossed legs or leg separations can be taken.

Jordan Chiles can do a deduction-free open tucked Silivas for an H if she wants to. I assume she would, if she could.
 
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Someone got a hold of the Rio book, which does list individual judges scores. I’m not sure if it was an intentional public release or if it was a leak.

I’ve not seen any judges book since, which lists individual scores.

The Rio book had some very wide scoring differentials on the same panel (and even as between the R Judges) of up to a point or more; and perhaps this is the exact reason why they don’t publicly release them.
 
You can tell them definitively that there is no deduction for this. An open tuck in a double salto with twists is not deductible
I have and will do so again. Can’t tell if they don’t believe me or if they just think that there should be required hip and knee angles. Either way, I noticed while editing my photos that she’s not the only gymnast to employ an open tuck:
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I have feelings too and I factor them into personal decisions but if the numbers look against something I list pros and cons. For entertainment options it’s entirely feelings coming up against numbers. Feelings in that regard acquired more weight as I have aged. I just don’t think feelings belong in some decisions at all. Sports, investments, grades, balancing a budget, sizes of pants, don’t respond well to feelings rather than fact.
 
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Most of the classical execution deductions are fact based but a couple of the artistry deductions are “feelings” based. Just another reason why they should be separately judged and separately recorded.
 
Why don’t you tell us what you think can fix what is wrong and how to do it.
I have but you don’t seem interested, nor with the opinions of other athletes and analysts. Earlier you even said that none of us know how to fix the system. Now you also dismiss their opinions as “they weren’t judging using the COP.” The entire point is the COP is very flawed and people don’t think it is representing gymnastics very well. Most of them understand the COP well enough to know why it is flawed, they don’t need to write every little detail on twitter or on air (there isn’t time for that anyway).
if the argument is “well she should have won by 2 tenths instead of 4 tenths”… then really haven’t you got anything better to do with your life?
Very hypocritical. You spend more time than anyone scoring routines and complaining when it doesn’t match up with what you had. You complained people weren’t talking about the D-panel getting Andrade’s AA score wrong by .1, when that is a far smaller issue and when it’s not a judged decision anyway, just a mistake with cv being added.

When someone is overscored by .2-.3 on every apparatus in a competition, that makes a huge difference. Even on a single apparatus it matters, especially in an event final. You seem to be waving it off it because you’re a Jess fanboy.

Just because it didn’t change the medal in the EF this time (although it did in the AA), doesn’t mean it isn’t important. It could have made a difference and actually still may have. When you’re competing against someone who seems to be getting special treatment, it can throw your own game off, and give them more confidence. Judged sports have a particularly high psychological component and if you see someone scoring a certain number, you might think it’s necessary to increase your difficulty to match it.

The way the Gogean was judged between Jess and Jordan is a perfect example. Jess should not have been credited, yet she was. You complained about Jordan trying that skill for finals while ignoring Jess’ mistake. A likely scenario is Jordan saw Jess’ floor routine in the AA scoring 14.4 with a short Gogean and thought “well if that’s how the judges are scoring it, I’ll have to do it too.” But it turns out the judges weren’t scoring it like that for everyone. Just for a specific person.
There was also no “British fix” in the AA - Alice is also British!
She was overscored in this competition too. It should be noted though, the way politics often works is one person is held up as that country’s “push”.

I don’t think there was necessarily a huge campaign to overscore the Brits, but I do think their top 2 were given gifts in the judging, on top of Jess being someone who has been getting overrated to begin with. It’s been argued her wildly overscored 14.6 floor at Nationals “is just national scoring”, but those things can have impact. People in the sport talk and judges tend to follow trends.

BTW, it’s a strawman to bring up random people on Twitter “attacking” Jess. That has nothing to do with other issues and is a weak attempt to invalidate very real concerns, by trying to make her look like a victim. This strawman has become common in all kinds of discourse these days and needs to stop; Twitter is such an easy scapegoat.
 
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Very hypocritical. You spend more time than anyone scoring routines and complaining when it doesn’t match up with what you had. You complained people weren’t talking about the D-panel getting Andrade’s AA score wrong by .1, when that is a far smaller issue and when it’s not a judged decision anyway, just a mistake with cv being added.

When someone is overscored by .2-.3 on every apparatus in a competition, that makes a huge difference. Even on a single apparatus it matters, especially in an event final. You seem to be waving it off it because you’re a Jess fanboy.
Ok so a) please chill, and read through, and b) i THINK what he means is, does it really matter that she wins by 0.2 or 0.4? Sometimes judges will be a little lenient if get think someone is the clear winner, so without knowing anything, it could be she’s a little overscored.
Eta: edited cause frolova below pointed me to the truth 😇.
 
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It wasn’t Andrade’s score from QC that was wrong - she was credited with 5,8 and that is what she deserved. The error was in AA when she was credited with 6,0 but in reality was eligible for a maximum of 5,9. She won by 1,50 points so it is moot, but it could have been Hamm-gate all over!
 
It’s been argued her wildly overscored 14.6 floor at Nationals “is just national scoring”, but those things can have impact.
Really? Can you tell us more about this? Everything I’ve ever seen about domestic overscoring is people berating it.
 
If Jess was consistently overscored throughout worlds then that would involves how many different panels of judges?! No one likes her that much, not even Doug likes her that much. Probably Jennifer doesn’t even like her that much. And it would require Lidia Ivanova levels of wheeler dealing
 
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As advanced as our infiltration capabilities are in Russia, I doubt that “Doug” is in fact the online persona of corrupt ex soviet judge in her 80s. Still, stranger things have happened
 

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