2022 World Gymnastics Championship WAG Podium (10/27-10/28)

[irichluck21]

They suck. I mean, what else can you say?

I didn’t say that.
But many were predicting a team silver or even pushing USA for team gold. Based on podium they struggled and if repeated in team finals will not capture a team medal. USA, ITA, BRA, GBR were all pretty solid minus one or two routines in podium if they compete the same way in team finals, it will be exciting. China has the best bars and beam of the entire field, which they stacked on purpose, would be disappointing to see them not capitalize on these events.

 

[Denn]

Yes, because of where she puts the split in the twist, it does lead to her head looking to her left a LOT and those two things make it look a bit awkward. I couldn’t decide whether I could justify a deduction and I would have taken 0.1 and then hoped nobody asked me to justify it!

 

[Doug1233]

8.6E for me. Beautiful!

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

I’d deduct for split .1, alignment .1, and lack of amplitude .1 on the Strug

Thorsdottir isn’t guilty of this, but gymnasts need to stop half-assing single turns en dehors out of their Memmels/double L turns. Most of the time, the free leg doesn’t get to position until the under-rotated turn is nearly completed.

 

[Doug1233]

Skye has been Laurie’d out of an AA spot in prelims. She was quite comfortably second out of the US girls in AA prelims. I almost hope that she isn’t a 9.2E DTY away from that same place in prelims; as it would be quite upsetting both for her and her coaches if this happens.

 

[Doug1233]

I’d deduct for split .1, alignment .1, and lack of amplitude .1 on the Strug

I agree with the alignment, for sure. Amplitude is a close one, but it’s either way for me. Split, hmm - I think she’s at 180. It might look short because of the alignment issue, but you’ve already deducted her for that. I think 2 on that would be a good compromise.

 

[Doug1233]

That being said, Carey is still incurring quite a few deductions in both the first flight and repulsion phases of the vault:

• leg separation → greater than shoulder width, 0.3
• loose / flexed feet, 0.1
• shoulder angle, 0.3
• bent arms, 0.1
• staggered hand placement, 0.1

Right. But there’s no way she’s getting 9 tenths on the pre-flight.

Although, maybe ACCURATE VAULT SCORING is going to be the “Montreal E Panel beam shocker” of this Worlds. I would love it.

ETA: Well - that didn’t happen!

The 1/2 turn must be initiated prior to regrasp or the gymnast will be credited with the non-twisting variation of the element. Catching in mixed grip as Nina does, and turning on the bar is an example of a case where a downgrade should be made. In addition, the E panel can take a deduction for lack of precision based on how much of the turn was completed prior to regrasp.

@Concorde You called it! Nina’s Ricna half was downgraded to Ricna.

 

[GymBeauty]

I’d deduct for split .1, alignment .1, and lack of amplitude .1 on the Strug

Thorsdottir isn’t guilty of this, but gymnasts need to stop half-assing single turns en dehors out of their Memmels/double L turns. Most of the time, the free leg doesn’t get to position until the under-rotated turn is nearly completed.

Yay, love to see that split deduction.

I think your blurb about turns is worth talking about for Thorsdottir too. Her big turn series is fun, but the double turn is a bit suspicious, doing a 1/2-turning step onto the other foot to reach 2 rotations, rather than coming close to completing the turn on the initial foot itself. I guess it’s fine, because combo, but it could be done more completely. She actually doesn’t do any of the turns in the series fully (which seemingly isn’t allowed for the L-turn anymore, I don’t see a special rule regarding connecting out of it. I also can’t find the rule at the moment which allows a Memmel turn to be short when doing it into an Illusion; I want to see the exact language there if someone can link).

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

On second thought, if I’m seeing two body position deductions on her Strug, then I’d have to take the .3. Yeah, Doug, on second thought maybe no amplitude deduction lol

I think her double pirouette is quite good, I wouldn’t deduct

starting position

Leg is free from floor by 90 degrees of turn.

Turn is complete, supporting heel is still raised.
Her double L is perhaps under-rotated tho

When Derwael debuted her Derwael II (Nabieva 1/2) at the Osijek Cup last year, it was rumored that the judges advised she change her technique because in 2022, the 1/2 turn would not be recognized. I’m curious about how difficult it is to learn this turn initiation faster in the air. I don’t think her releases need more height… Regardless, even if she doesn’t change her technique, the routine is worth doing because even though Ricna + Ezhova is impossible, it gets her smoothly into a mixed grip to satisfy the .5 requirement

 

[Doug1233]

then I’d have to take the .3.

You wouldn’t have to. They took that rule out! It’s now your discretion. Small medium or large deviation from the ideal position.

 

[GymBeauty]

Turn is complete, supporting heel is still raised.

The turn isn’t complete though. Her turning foot has only done 1.5 turns behind her, and she’s just stepping onto the other foot. It’s understandable if these cheats are allowed for combinations, but again the turning foot could finish the turn itself (doing an actual double turn), and then the free foot could come down to do the next turn. That is more difficult, and ideally I think there should be a small difference in the code.

In other Dutch turning curiosities, the way Naomi Visser does the Double-L on floor is rather clever, or problematic:



The back of her foot barely leaves the ground (until the last part of the turn, where she then raises it up). This seems to risk being called as the heel already having dropped at the start.

 

[Doug1233]

I’d credit that Double L.

 

[YurchenkoLoop]

here is the actual end of the turn. It’s certainly a double, with a high passe and good spotting.

 

[GymBeauty]

here is the actual end of the turn

Look at her right foot - the actual turning foot. It has not completed 2 rotations. That foot should be pointing in the direction of her left foot. She is stepping from turning foot onto the free foot after 1.5 rotations. Stepping onto the free foot instead of actually completing the turn is something that can be used to mask a lack of balance. It doesn’t mean there necessarily was a lack of balance, but it’s factually more difficult to do a full 2 turns, and then step onto the free foot to do the next turn.

 

[Caledi]

I think the exiting position is fine. You’re allowed to do your turns in turnout so the foot doesn’t actually matter; it’s the hip position. But the real problem is that she way overturns going into both the double turn and the illusion.

 

[GymBeauty]

Overturn lol? In the L-turn she drops the free leg from hip position before 2 turns and the free foot starts the next double turn at exactly the 2 rotation mark. In the I-turn it varies exactly where the step happens, sometimes her turning foot is a little past 2 turns by the time the free foot is down for the next turn, but that really shouldn’t matter anyway.

Gymnastics floor routines are not a ballet, where the audience is viewing from only one direction; it’s a 360 degree space. The way Memmel did her turn should be encouraged and considered deduction free: she steps onto the turning foot without extra preparation and turnout, and then she “overturns” by the time it’s finished. And that’s perfectly fine. It looks great and melds into the choreography better.

You’re allowed to do your turns in turnout so the foot doesn’t actually matter; it’s the hip position.

The foot is what’s doing the turn. Not the hips. Having turnout at the start is fine, but the foot should be getting very close to backwards at the end (with exception for CV-worthy turn combinations, but ideally I’d still like to see a small 0.05 deduction for not doing the turn more completely).

Looking at the heel drop is one thing that can be used to say a turn has concluded for competitive purposes, but it’s not the only thing. There is no heel drop when doing an I-turn into an illusion, for example. You’re stepping from the toe of the turning foot onto the other foot. It’s very possible while having a balance issue in any spin to not drop the heel while pitching over, and step onto the other foot in the process, but that doesn’t mean you’ve done the turn properly.

 

[Denn]

I can’t believe the amount of time everyone spends trying to decide whether to credit a certain number of turns. Like, who the fuck cares unless it’s REALLY bad? That’s just not the point of a spin in dance.

And it’s only because of the judges and their incessant desire to be “objective” (which really isn’t objective). Nobody put gymnasts under this level of scrutiny back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

 

[Caledi]

I think you’ve completely misunderstood my post, because I was largely agreeing with you.

What I mean by over turning is that she steps into the double turn and especially the illusion at already about 1/4 turn in. Not that it was a creditable 2.25 L-turn necessarily. That’s what makes the double be not quite two rotations (although I agree that it doesn’t matter much, but the entry into the illusion is quite ugly in that routine). I never said over turning itself was bad, but when connecting two turns that can cause one of them to be under.

You are wrong about the hips not mattering in a turn, though. The COP clearly says “The position of the shoulders and hips are decisive otherwise another element from the COP will be credited.” There is no mention of the position of the turning foot.

 

[dweiss324]

I promise that I, for one, will never give a shit how turned out anyone’s foot was during a relatively straight forward spin

 

[GymBeauty]

What I mean by over turning is that she steps into the double turn and especially the illusion at already about 1/4 turn in. Not that it was a creditable 2.25 L-turn necessarily.

She doesn’t tho…she steps into the double turn at exactly 2 turns from where the L-turn actually started rotating on the foot. Like, I’m fine with giving leeway for turnout at the start, but nobody should be punished for doing 2 actual rotations, that’s ludicrous.

The COP clearly says “The position of the shoulders and hips are decisive otherwise another element from the COP will be credited.” There is no mention of the position of the turning foot.

I know, but that rule is a terrible way of determining the end point of a spin, and it also clearly does not work in many cases. It says the hip/shoulder position is to be looked when the heel drops, but there isn’t always a heel drop. The rule doesn’t even work on its own, because the position of the hips and shoulders can be twisted from each other. It needs to be rewritten.