Will he never go away (nassar trigger warning)

[JaJa]

yup. How often do you think perjury is criminally prosecuted?

They lost their jobs, which to a fed is like losing their life.

 

[Doug1233]

Surely if an FBI agent can publicly commit perjury and not be prosecuted, it calls into question and completely undermines every subsequent “you lied to the FBI” perjury charge against any citizen ever.

 

[JaJa]

imagine that.

 

[rlayt]

Doug it depends on how much political pull and/or money you have whether you are prosecuted or convicted.

 

[JDB]

I hate to break it to you, but the FBI’s been doing this stuff for over 70 years.

 

[MaryClare]

I really am surprised that this sort of thing happens in America where there is litigation over just about everything

 

[JaJa]

I really am surprised that this sort of thing happens in America where there is litigation over just about everything

there is a difference between civil litigation and criminal prosecution.

 

[Doug1233]

Can they bring a private prosecution or are they barred from that?

 

[JaJa]

Is that still a thing in the U.K? Its not in the U.S. Maybe there are one or two states that technically still allow it I do not know Not allowed under federal law. It for sure will not happen here.

 

[Doug1233]

I think so. AR will know more than me.

Could Maroney sue for negligent infliction of emotional distress?

 

[JaJa]

No

 

[Doug1233]

Do they have some kind of immunity?

You’d think perjury or fraudulent misrepresentation/concealment in the course of their duties would remove any immunity?

And if it doesn’t, it should.

I’m pretty sure a doctor who fraudulently covered something up which resulted in significant injury to a minor would be subject to some kind of criminal action in addition to being struck off?

Lawyers can be prosecuted for lying, too, can’t they? Or at least be sued by their clients. It’s not just a “you lose your license” kind of thing.

 

[JaJa]

of course they have a limited form of immunity. They have qualified immunity

look, they can;t sue them. Its extremely hard to sue the feds.

Anyway, these guys were lying not to cover up the underlying crime but to cover up their own botching of the investigation. its very different.

 

[Doug1233]

look, they can;t sue them. Its extremely hard to sue the feds.

Why though?

And it’s not hard to sue anyone. Anyone can file a suit in court

Might be hard to win ha

Why not just file a suit and watch them squirm out of it. Would keep the botch job in the news cycle. Isn’t that what they want?

 

[JaJa]

It would not be hard to win it would be impossible to win. No even partially competent lawyer would do this. Anyway, they missed the deadline to file an administrative claim which would have to precede the actual lawsuit under the federal torts claim act

 

[Doug1233]

It would not be hard to win it would be impossible to win. No even partially competent lawyer would do this

You keep saying this but you’re not saying why. I’m sure you’re right I’m just interested as to why. People sue doctors and lawyers who have fucked up all the time, even for completely unintentional fuck ups. This was a calculated intentional cover up that clearly resulted in substantial harm. I’m sure Maroney has bills to pay in relation to this.

Surely you can appreciate that a layperson would struggle to understand why there’s a difference here (and I am absolutely a layperson when it comes to US litigation!!)

 

[JaJa]

Sorry. I thought it was understood a bit more widely known. Yes, people sue privately employed doctors and lawyers all the time for malpractice. But when you work for a federal government you can only be sued under the Federal Tort Claims Act , which created some exceptions to sovereign immunity

One thing you have to show is actual injury as a result of the employees negligent or wrongful act.

And you have to file an administrative claim within 2 years.

At best the FBI dropping the ball on this caused emotional distress. And to use that as a basis for a claim against a federal agent you would have to show that their conduct was either intentional, or at the very least extreme and outrageous. Just goofing up an investigation while you dithered over whether you had jurisdiction does not cut it.

Look, federal agents have qualified immunity. And you as an attorney – even a foreign one – should understand that this means they are not going to be sued in this case,

Can I sue a member of Parliament for voting for a bill that ultimately caused me emotional distress?

Anyway, class is closed. Its time to get the barbecue going

 

[RAFIKI]

Thanks for the explanation, I didn’t know any of this.

Side question relating to a 90s X-Files plot point (!)…is there a harsher (written or in practice) penalty for murdering a federal employee?

Can I sue a member of Parliament for voting for a bill that ultimately caused me emotional distress?

I can think of a few that would qualify!

 

[Doug1233]

Can I sue a member of Parliament for voting for a bill that ultimately caused me emotional distress?

This is not even remotely a similar analogy.

 

[Doug1233]

And you as an attorney – even a foreign one – should understand that this means they are not going to be sued in this case,

This is probably the most patronising thing I’ve heard you say!

I’m a corporate lawyer. Why on earth would I know that it’s not possible to win a civil lawsuit against an FBI agent committing perjury?

You don’t learn that on the bar exam.