Score this UB routine

[Nanou84]

Here is a video of former French gymnast Kaylia Nemour, who’s now competing for Algeria.
How would you score this UB routine from Arab Games?
She got a 6.4 D score and a 6.95 E score, which seems really really low to me.

 

[Yarotska]

Eyeballing it I was at 7.5.

 

[navyblue]

Wow, beautiful swinger, what a nice representative for Algeria!

I’m sure someone more skilled than I will weigh in, but yeah 6.95 seems exceptionally harsh. I’m basically just seeing a bunch of 1 tenth and some 3 tenth handstand angles, plus flexed feet on the in-bar elements. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Don’t know how I would get over 3 points (an average of 0.25 on every skill including KCHs!) but I’m sure someone can do it lol.

The Yezhova might be responsible for a big chunk… I believe I read that pak salto angle deductions were removed in the current code, but if you’re still (incomprehensibly) supposed to catch a Yezhova in perfect handstand she would obviously deserve a major hit there. Also – her hand seems to fully slip off the bar after the skill, though she does well to regrasp without impacting her flow. Not sure how that would be judged.

 

[Doug1233]

I had 7.8.

 

[irichluck21]

7.600 for me from this angle in the video. We didn’t see her feet in some of the handstands, however.
6.950 seems extremely harsh to me.

However, what were the other bar routines like in terms of execution, it could be the judging panel was harsh on all athletes.

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

6,950! I was was at 2,30 in deductions, several 0,3 but mostly 0,10. With a bit of tidying on the cast to HS and the Ezhova, this could be an AF exercise in Liverpoool.

 

[Doug1233]

So we have a 7.5, 7.6, 7.7 and 7.8!

 

[irichluck21]

With a bit of tidying on the cast to HS and the Ezhova, this could be an AF exercise in Liverpoool.

She is not qualified to compete in Liverpool unfortunately.

 

[navyblue]

All the below got me down to 8.0 taking the harsher penalty where applicable, so what’d I miss? Used the graphics below for KCH angles, pirouette angles, and high-to-low flight (covers the Pak and Yezhova):

1. Kip Cast handstand - no deduction, she definitely isn’t 30 degrees past vertical here… 0.0
2. Komova - flexed feet, 0.1
3. Uprise to Stalder Full - 0.3 for angle on completion which to me hovers almost within and not past 30 degrees, but I’m sure everyone’s taking 3 here cuz we hate joy :hugs:
4. Tweddle - amazing amplitude, her feet are glued together the whole time, someone on Youtube said this had been downgraded based on her catching angle?? But even if so, not an E panel concern??? 0.0
5. Yezhova: leg separation (0.3 - meets the “shoulder width or more” criterion in section 8.3), I would argue she’s around the 45 degree mark on regrasp, but I suppose her hand slip throws that into debate, so based on that graphic above it looks like the most punitive deduction for >45 degrees should be 0.5…
6. KCH: once again I think this skirts under 30 degrees angle which would be 0.0, but let’s say 30 degrees which is again 0.1
7. Chow: stunning! 0.0
8. Pak Salto: this might actually qualify for the 0.5 angle below 45… I swear someone said this deduction was getting nixed but I guess not? Did it actually get harsher this code, wasn’t sub-30 degrees previously 0.3 tenths per this video? Rant: Why did WTC decide gymnasts are supposed to land a Pak Salto in a handstand? :roll_eyes:
9. Van Leeuwen: stunning! 0.0
10. KCH: 0.0
11. In-bar full: flexed feet 0.1, angle on regrasp is actually shocking good for a full turn, she is magical:, i honestly think this qualifies for 0.0 but I defy any one to go more than 0.1 for this
12. Double Layout: Small hop (0.1)

 

[Concorde]

Kip Cast handstand - no deduction, she definitely isn’t 30 degrees past vertical here… 0.0

On the glide kip, I would deduct 0.1 for insufficient extension. Notice how her body never completely opens and has a slight pike throughout.

Tweddle - amazing amplitude, her feet are glued together the whole time, someone on Youtube said this had been downgraded based on her catching angle?? But even if so, not an E panel concern??? 0.0

To receive credit for a Jaegar or Tkatchev release with 1/2 turn, the gymnast must clearly initiate the turn prior to regrasp. If the turn is incomplete, a 0.1 deduction for lack of precision would be taken. Because the D and E panels do not communicate with each other, the skill could be downgraded to a ‘regular’ Jaeger or Tkatchev, but still receive the deduction.

Yezhova: leg separation (0.3 - meets the “shoulder width or more” criterion in section 8.3), I would argue she’s around the 45 degree mark on regrasp, but I suppose her hand slip throws that into debate, so based on that graphic above it looks like the most punitive deduction for >45 degrees should be 0.5…

Because the Ezhova is described as being caught in support, article 9.4.2. does not apply. Therefore, no deductions for angle of completion.

Pak Salto: this might actually qualify for the 0.5 angle below 45… I swear someone said this deduction was getting nixed but I guess not? Did it actually get harsher this code, wasn’t sub-30 degrees previously 0.3 tenths per this video ? Rant: Why did WTC decide gymnasts are supposed to land a Pak Salto in a handstand? :roll_eyes:

Angle of completion deductions no longer exist for the Pak salto.

To answer your question, I believe the angle of completion deductions on Pak saltos were designed to punish poorly performed Pak saltos, and to encourage gymnasts to work directly out of them. If you catch a Pak too flat / below 45 degrees, you most likely will be unable to directly connect it to a stalder or Shaposhnikova type element. However, as many gymnasts have shown, the angle at which you caught the Pak salto didn’t necessarily mean that the skill as a whole was poorly executed, or that you couldn’t work out of it, especially those catching in the 31-45 degree range (which was where deductions started being taken).

Double Layout: Small hop (0.1)

I could see judges potentially deducting for insufficient height because in real time her hips appear to stay at high bar height. Rewatching, it does look like they rise slightly above. Also, being a bit nitpicky here, but her initial landing position isn’t quite ideal with the chest a bit forward. That being said, overall, I am in range with the others here.

 

[navyblue]

To answer your question, I believe the angle of completion deductions on Pak saltos were designed to punish poorly performed Pak saltos, and to encourage gymnasts to work directly out of them. If you catch a Pak too flat / below 45 degrees, you most likely will be unable to directly connect it to a stalder or Shaposhnikova type element. However, as many gymnasts have shown, the angle at which you caught the Pak salto didn’t necessarily mean that the skill as a whole was poorly executed, or that you couldn’t work out of it, especially those catching in the 31-45 degree range (which was where deductions started being taken).

Thank you for the comprehensive response and clearing up the Yezhova/Pak questions…
The Tweddle makes sense. It’s actually a skill that looks pretty darn accurate in real time, but in slow-mo you can tell it’s more of a cross-grip catch than a true half turn during flight. Agreed about the DLO, she actually rises to her apex during the beginning of her second salto, so technically shouldn’t incur an amplitude deduction…

I guess I need to find a newer copy of the code even though the PDF I have says 2022 -24

 

[navyblue]

Ah wait, so I glossed over the fact that your analysis actually removes a full point of the deductions I came up with for angle of completion – although I’m sure there’s gotta be something going on with a judge’s pen watching that funky Yezhova catch.

If you have the time I would love to see your skill-by-skill analysis or how this gets into the high 7s range consensus that a few others had it at (and then react vehemently against it, lol, not you personally just the Code of Points that has folks deducting a hollow-bodied kip )

 

[tsarinajen]

I think you guys are missing the obvious deduction… wrong country of representation. We’ve NEVER seen that before.

I say this as someone with limited understanding of the code for what I thought was a pretty good set

 

[Caligym]

This seems like a huge loss for the French team. All I could find online is that she had an injury and French docs wouldn’t clear her. Does anyone know more of the backstory(like what was her injury) and where she trains?

 

[Caligym]

Found video of her BB from same comp. Not a very steady set but should be very competitive when hit.

 

[Caligym]

Her event final routine has been posted! 14.7(6.5D 8.2E)

 

[Nanou84]

She trains in Avoine Beaumont with Marc and Gina Chirilcenko. There are multiple factors to her country change :

• she had osteochondritis and was cleared to start training again by her doctor but not the federal one.
• there is a fight between the federation and Avoine’s coaches but I don’t really know why… It seems they dont trust their training methods and their inegrity. All gymnasts working towards Paris 2024 were asked to come to train at INSEP in Paris, which was refused by Kaylia and most of the Avoine’s gymnasts (including Carolann Heduit).
• her coaches are not allowed to be on the competition floor anymore. For example, Carolann Heduit was coached by Martine George at Europeans. She has been complaining about that.

Regarding those problems, she chose to represent her father’s country, Algeria. It’s a huge loss for France and a big problem of mismanagement.

 

[Caligym]

Wow! Thank you for all the information

 

[FrolovasDoubleLayout]

All gymnasts working towards Paris 2024 were asked to come to train at INSEP in Paris, which was refused by Kaylia and most of the Avoine’s gymnasts (including Carolann Heduit).

Interesting that there seems to be a double standard being applied - De Jesus Dos Santos can train on another continent but this athlete is not to train in her own gym IN her country. De Jesus Dos Santos UB at Paris Challenge Cup v. this routine…hmmmm.

 

[navyblue]

In a thrilling plot twist, she completes an almost identical routine and gains an additional 1.25 in execution…I mean, maybe that grip-slip issue after her Yezhova actually caused her to strike her heels on the mat in that first routine? Which would have been out of the video’s frame…

Ah well, enough brain cells wasted examining scores, this is simply the finest uneven bars routine I’ve seen in the current triennium, amazing work.