Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[MaryClare]

Exactly. People don’t seem to understand this.

 

[JaJa]

I totally get it. And its not just the consequences people face for being in opposition to Putin – in “ordinary” times never mind now with the war – . Its the extreme difficulty of changing anything over there. People that think its like the U.S., or worse, that the U.S. is some sort of totalitarian state just literally have no clue what its like over there. And have far too little appreciation for the extreme freedom we have here. (And by the way its not just Russia. It is every former Soviet state, including the ones that purport to be liberal and democratic. )

 

[JaJa]

while it does make me sick to my stomach to see things like this… what choice to they really have? I’m sure there would be some sort of consequence if they refused(if they wanted to… who knows like someone said earlier if they even know what is really going on)

Yes. Agreed. Its not the fault of the young athletes. But it is a very good reason to ban Russia from all sport competetions.

 

[tempest]

Yes. Agreed. Its not the fault of the young athletes. But it is a very good reason to ban Russia from all sport competetions.

YEP

 

[MaryClare]

Also, I think it’s important to say that this event has not been marketed as a pro war rally.

It is run by a pro Putin organisation which has been around a long time called World Without Nazism. See more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Without_Nazism

To many Russians this is a legitimate anti fascist organisation with links to such organisation in other countries.

 

[Rich]

but with vpns still working and what hear in the news, people can get real news from the west and in Russia. I feel like making them the victim gets them off easily. They do not need to wear a Z. I dont understand why only some people go to theses rallies. not the entire gymnastics team. There must be some choice and incentive.

 

[MaryClare]

You have no idea what it’s like here. You can access as many western news sources as you like. That doesn’t give you freedom to act upon what you see

 

[Sanzhirovka]

So how do you explain the thousands of Russians who are in fact attending anti war protests?

Do they not have the freedom to stay at home silent? If not, then how is it that some Russians do not have freedom to act, while others do?

Obviously everyone has the freedom to act upon what they see. It’s just that each person individually decides what risk they are willing to take.

A classic prisoners’ dilemma.

 

[JaJa]

So how do you explain the thousands of Russians who are in fact attending anti war protests?

Do they not have the freedom to stay at home silent? If not, then how is it that some Russians do not have freedom to act, while others do?

Obviously everyone has the freedom to act upon what they see. It’s just that each person individually decides what risk they are willing to take.

A classic prisoners’ dilemma.

Yes, exactly, people have different levels of fear and different levels of courage and risk tolerance. Most people just do not want to risk getting beaten by police or arrested and possibly sentenced to prison. Its very easy to demand that others put themselves at risk from the safety of ones own living room in the U.S.

 

[MaryClare]

Exactly. Even in countries where you can freely protest, most people do not. How many people in the US were anti Trump? How many attended a protest?

 

[JaJa]

How many people would even risk social stigma taking a particular political stance?

 

[MaryClare]

They don’t have the “freedom” to do so. It’s illegal, and it doesn’t stop being illegal. You think that as long as you make it home from the protest you are ok?! Police are identifying people via CCTV days later and arresting them.

It’s like saying you have the freedom to take items from a shop without paying. Well you do, until you are caught and have to face the consequences.

 

[Rich]

I wonder if they have a choice to attend the rallies. Not all the gold medalists went. Not most of the gymnasts went. There are ways of protesting that is little risk. Can say you have a cold maybe covid cant go

 

[MaryClare]

Very little choice. Even before this, Russian athletes have to do a lot of state propaganda events. They are employees of the state.

Also bear in mind the context of the event. It is not a “pro war rally”. It’s run by an organisation that many Russians, even those who oppose the war, see as a bona fide anti fascist organisation. So it won’t be obvious to people that it’s pro war

 

[JaJa]

Also bear in mind the context of the event. It is not a “pro war rally”. It’s run by an organisation that many Russians, even those who oppose the war, see as a bona fide anti fascist organisation. So it won’t be obvious to people that it’s pro war

And then there is Putin’s garbage about how they are fighting Nazis in Ukraine. There may be some Russians still fooled by this

 

[MaryClare]

It is not just Russians that are fooled. This organisation has cultivated links with anti fascist groups internationally and received a lot of praise a few years ago for highlighting increase xenophobia towards Chechen and central Asian people in Russia.

 

[MaryClare]

I’ve never seen or heard of any right wing person think that about America police. They either like them, because they think they kill black guys for fun, or they hate them because they think they are controlled by Jews.

 

[JaJa]

It is not just Russians that are fooled. This organisation has cultivated links with anti fascist groups internationally and received a lot of praise a few years ago for highlighting increase xenophobia towards Chechen and central Asian people in Russia.

It gets very complicated and convoluted does it not?

 

[MaryClare]

And how. Remember that our 2nd party here is the Communist Party of Russia. Yeah, they are still around and your children can still join the Komsomol, get a little red neck tie and go on a field trip to lay flowers on Stalin’s tomb. Anyway, this is their policy on Ukraine…

 

[Sanzhirovka]

From Intlgymnast:

Ukraine’s Illia Kovtun: ‘God is with us and the truth is on our side’​

IGO: What can people do to help Ukrainians, and especially Ukrainian gymnasts and their coaches?

IK: Almost the whole world is helping Ukrainians, both financially and morally. Many countries are taking our families to their homes and helping them in society. Gymnastics clubs in different countries are ready to accept our gymnasts with their families, and provide accommodation, meals and a place to practice. What else is needed? Close the sky over Ukraine. And that the Russian people gain courage and come out against their tyrant, we give them a great chance to gain freedom and learn to think, and not to live in eternal fear and be constantly zombified.

https://www.intlgymnast.com/interviews/ukraines-illia-kovtun-god-is-with-us-and-the-truth-is-on-our-side/