Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[irichluck21]

I have seen some videos on FB of average every day Russians siding with Putin and not believing what he is doing is actually happening.
Who knows if this is accurate though.

 

[MaryClare]

I’d say it most definitely is accurate. Plenty of people here still support Putin. But many do not, and the events of the last couple of weeks have tipped many people who were previously quite pro Putin.

But, and I cannot stress this enough, we are NOT unaware of what’s going on. It isn’t a regime like North Korea. But many still choose to believe Putin’s narrative.

 

[rlayt]

Some Russians are brave about speaking out. First Narusova questioned casualty numbers now Ilya Nasin says war is wrong.

4000 people arrested for protesting in Russia in one day. The movements against the war are growing.

 

[rlayt]

I have seen some videos on FB of average every day Russians siding with Putin and not believing what he is doing is actually happening.

I believe I’ve seen that video too. Bing Bong News which has a Twitter account too and is posting graphic photos there of dead Russian soldiers. Psychological Operations arm of the Ukraine government perhaps.

 

[Doug1233]

But many still choose to believe Putin’s narrative.

Given that you say they know what’s going on (Russia killing innocent citizens, completely unprovoked), what kind of populace would choose to support that?

 

[Denn]

I feel like we’ve established this already: those who know that the war is horrific think it’s justified because they believe the rationale they are being fed: Ukraine is hurting people in the pro-Russian eastern provinces, etc.

 

[MaryClare]

Seeing and believing are very different things.

But Putin is, or at least was, genuinely popular

 

[RedBirdie]

Given that you say they know what’s going on (Russia killing innocent citizens, completely unprovoked), what kind of populace would choose to support that?

Doug, you live in the US now, you know this isn’t just a Russia thing. Americans knew damn well in 2003 what was happening but the majority went all in on the “rah rah AMERICA!!!” bandwagon. And a sizable portion of Americans today choose to believe all sorts of bullshit that we all know is bullshit. Just look at the shit Trump is peddling about Putin and the thunderous ovations he gets. What sort of of populace would choose to support that? And yet, here we are.

 

[Doug1233]

Sure. But there’s a huge difference between what Trump was saying and what Putin is doing.

Although, granted, I know there are many Americans who would probably cheer for a Trump-ordered genocide in Mexico. My point is that it would be a much smaller % of the population than the % of Russians who support the Putin-ordered genocide in Ukraine.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

In such an authoritarian state, where people are afraid to speak against the government, I can’t imagine how that could be verified.

 

[MaryClare]

It is not a genocide. The safest Ukrainians right now are the millions who live in Russia. Putin is not trying to wipe out Ukrainian people

 

[JaJa]

Putin is not trying to wipe out Ukrainian people

Just the ones living in Ukraine? He is for sure targeting civilians. You can not pretty this thing up.

 

[MaryClare]

I don’t disagree that he is targeting civilians. But it isn’t genocide. Plenty Russian civilians in Eastern Ukraine been killed due to Russian Army, whilst Ukrainians living in Russia are not in danger.

 

[JaJa]

I don’t disagree that he is targeting civilians. But it isn’t genocide. Plenty Russian civilians in Eastern Ukraine been killed due to Russian Army, whilst Ukrainians living in Russia are not in danger.

I see your point. It probably does not fit the definition of genocide. While genocide does NOT require that you aim to kill an entire population of a particular nationality or ethnic group, I agree that killing Ukrainians was not Putin’s goal. His goal was to subjugate them. The targeting of civilians is to break the will of the Ukrainian people more than it is to wipe out the population. So, yes. Agreed.

 

[rlayt]

I won’t quibble about whether he intends to kill every person with Ukrainian ancestry. But he is certainly trying to kill every one of them outside his borders, destroy every Ukrainian landmark, wipe out their identity as a culture. He would destroy them as a separate Democratic people and make them a part of the herd of oppressed Russian people. He would subjugate them. The splitting of words, the fact he does not intend true genocide is of little worth to the 1-1/2 million people uprooted, the families mourning, the dead, the fearful. Ukrainians will never recover.

 

[JaJa]

And thank you MC for pointing this out. Because I think it is really important to get this stuff right and not to let emotion to take over and make all sorts of incorrect accusations. It can actually be dangerous. I mean I am obviously not giving Putin a pass. But he is not committing genocide and i do not think that his motivation is based on any personal animosity towards Ukrainians. Its based on his notion that Russia needs to reclaim its past basically and what he perceives as its rightful place in the world order which means reconstituting some form of the Soviet Union and running it

 

[JaJa]

But he is certainly trying to kill every one of them outside his borders, destroy every Ukrainian landmark, wipe out their identity as a culture

I think that is only half right though. I think he is for sure trying to destroy their identity as Ukrainians because he thinks they are part of Russia and the Russian people. But if they would only have simply bowed down and accepted his authority he would not have killed them – only the ones who tried to oppose his political ambitions. MC is right. It does not fit the definition of genocide.

 

[JaJa]

I think Putin truly sees the Ukranians as part of the Russian people who should all be under his control. There is LOTS of ethnic hatred in that part of the world. And it could lead to genocide. But this just is not an example of it.

 

[rlayt]

Maybe that’s what he thinks. You don’t know any more than anyone else about what he intends. We don’t really know what goes on behind his beady little eyes. The only thing we know is what we see. Lots of death. A society destroyed.

 

[JaJa]

Lots of death. A society destroyed.

That much is for sure. He has destroyed much of that country. Its just horrifying. And I increasingly am disgusted with our refusal to really do anything to stop it. Are we so reluctant to ask Americans to pay more (maybe even much more) at the pump? I mean these are people’s lives, people’s homes. So what if the energy markets go nuts for a while. But you know the truth is Americans would likely lose all interest in helping the Ukrainians the minute it really impacted their own wallet.