Russia-Ukraine War: Effects on Gymn World

[Hatsumomo]

Marina Ulyankina, the coach of Paseka, Perebinosova, and Tutkhalian, in a comment on the ban of Russians by the FIG on VK:
"We need to remind Watanabe - of Hiroshima and Nagasaki" pic.twitter.com/BLF1LN2wNp
— Gymnovosti (@gymnovosti) March 5, 2022

 

[Doug1233]

The truth means nothing if people don’t believe it

The West believe it.

And you say that Russians have plenty of access to Western media.

Why wouldn’t they believe it?

 

[MaryClare]

You believe it because you don’t live with our government propaganda. It’s easy for me, I went to school in the UK and didn’t grow up with it. Most people here have had a lifetime of it. Being able to access western media isn’t enough. I’m sure you could access Russia Today, but that wouldn’t make you start believing it.

 

[rlayt]

That’s a horrible thing to say to a Japanese person. And threatening nuclear weapons is horrible. A rumor on SM is that Putin is bringing chemical weapons.

We have groups of people here who refuse to think analytically or beyond what their favorite politician says. Fox News is similar to RT. “There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know”.

I hope this nightmare ends soon but I don’t believe it will.

 

[Ginger]

I lived with communist government propaganda all my childhood. No internet, no iphones, hard to reach any ‘free world’ media. I was 19 when I was first allowed to travel to the West, to visit my Aunt in Austria. That was the reality I grew up in.
And still people in my country were not brainwashed and they were aware they were lied to.

Maybe the main difference between my country (it took us more than 41 years to get rid of the communist regime) and Russia is that we had a strong dissent movement abroad (and many dissidents also stayed home - our first post-communist president was one of those who stayed, and he was also jailed several times).

Whereas in today’s Russia, even the prominent people who live abroad (Ovechkin for example) applaud to the dictator and collaborate with him.

 

[cats]

Ah, well, a huge number of people in the west don’t believe a single thing they see in our media. They only listen to Joe from Telegram.

 

[makam]

My coworker only believes this one podcast he listens to. And when i said “oh, they have lots of reporters that go out and cover stuff first hand?” And he said “no.” So i asked “then where do they get their news from?” And he was silent. So, somehow a podcast where they read someone else’s report of the event and then “interpret” it for their listeners is 100% credible but the AP or Washington Post aren’t. Propaganda man, there really should be a way to stop/counter it.

 

[Denn]

Or, perhaps “your future is bright, and since the western countries blame Putin, not you, they are eager to fix things.”

that’ almost childish in its simplicity, and I am sure many can word it better, but I agree with @MaryClare that a clear message, consistently shared by many nations of the world without the clutter of lots of other messages, would be more impactful than sanctions (or at least sanctions alone).

 

[Doug1233]

clear message, consistently shared by many nations of the world without the clutter of lots of other messages,

Isn’t that what most Western news is doing right now?

 

[rlayt]

It seems pretty clear to me. “Stop the invasion and killing. You are canceled until you do”.

If Putin prevents the words of the rest of the world from getting through he can’t prevent the impact of the actions.

 

[MaryClare]

No, it really isn’t

 

[JaJa]

Isn’t that what most Western news is doing right now?

Absolutely. It’s not only what the Western press is doing as it very accurately and consistently reports the position and actions of the Western states, but it is doing so historically. When is the last time the West has been so clearly and so passionately united in its actions and in its message??? This is one major aspect of Putin’s miscalculation. He did not foresee this, but he pummels on nevertheless. And even with the major sanctions. Even with the fierce resistance from the Ukrainians. So to think clear messaging alone would have stopped him is beyond naive at this point.

 

[Doug1233]

No, it really isn’t

What isn’t clear and consistent about the current Western press message?

I’ve not seen any Western press which is praising Putin. To the extent anyone has said anything like that, they’re pretty much universally derided and mocked.

 

[RedBirdie]

Ginger, were you in Czechoslovakia?

 

[JaJa]

I’ve not seen any Western press which is praising Putin. To the extent anyone has said anything like that, they’re pretty much universally derided and mocked.

I just flipped between FOX, CNN and mSNBC. On their coverage of international politics you usually think they are discussing entirely different realities. On Ukraine you can’t even tell which of them you are listening to. The coverage is almost indistinguishable .

 

[Ginger]

RedBirdie, I was born and raised in communist Czechoslovakia. I am Czech.
Just a side note - we envy Slovaks their wonderful female president.
But even our president, who was always very pro-Russian and always sided with Russian narrative when something happened (Vrbetice explosion for example) was very clear in his message on February 24. He condemned the invasion and condemned Putin.

 

[irichluck21]

I wonder if the average Russian nows what is actually happening. Between pro-Putin propaganda and censoring most media.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Well, even the more pro Russian and authoritarian leaning leaders in Eastern Europe have good reason to shit a brick now. Whatever they might say, they aren’t going to fancy a border with Putin’s Russia.

 

[JaJa]

I wonder if the average Russian nows what is actually happening. Between pro-Putin propaganda and censoring most media.

MC can tell us. but my educated guess is, yea they know. The protest movement is growing there . Below is a quote from Sunday’s Ny Times (and for those who do not know the FSB is the post Soviet incarnation of the KGB. Same deal, different initials

" Despite the threat of yearslong prison terms, thousands of Russians joined antiwar rallies across the country on Sunday in a striking show of the pent-up anger in Russian society about President Vladimir V. Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

The police reported more than 3,000 arrests across the country — the highest nationwide total officially reported in any single day of protest in recent memory. An activist group that tracks arrests, OVD-Info, reported detentions in 49 different Russian cities.

Video from independent Russian news outlets covering the protests showed throngs of people chanting “No to war!” on St. Petersburg’s central avenue, Nevsky Prospekt, and on Moscow’s Manezhnaya Square, just outside the Kremlin walls. Other clips showed protesters being beaten and kicked by the police, including next to a stand of balloons and gift boxes inside Moscow’s storied children’s department store, Detsky Mir — next door to the headquarters of the domestic intelligence agency, the F.S.B."

 

[JaJa]

One more point. While Western messaging has been very unified and totally clear, our economic sanctions have been largely bogus and toothless.

Exempt from the Swift ban are banks involved in oil and gas financing. I mean – c’mon. And even now with Biden saying he will cut off oil imports from Russia to the U.S. that will accomplish nothing. We need to apply sanctions across the board to the Russian oil and gas industry and that has to include secondary level sanctions – sanctioning international banks that are involved.

Those would be real sanctions. Hit Putin where he lives so to speak.

Outrageous that we have not done this. We are pretending to take actions but we really are not.