How did the Paris event qualifiers do?

[RAFIKI]

This place is unusually quiet for a post-big competition period. I suspect it's because we're all worn out from discussing the floor controversy. Until then I think the gymternet was pretty satisfied with the results and there weren't too many contentious scores/placements.

Anyway I'm bored of seeing FX EF PART 2 being the only thread with new posts so I'm going to start a bunch of standard threads to get some new discussions going.

2023 Worlds qualifiers​

MAG​

• FX: Carlos Edriel Yulo (PHI) ->Olympic champion
• PH: Rhys McClenaghan (IRL)->Olympic champion
• SR: Eleftherios Petrounias (GRE)->Bronze
• VT: Kevin Penev (BUL)->15th
• PB: Noah Kauvita (BEL)->51st (4.9/8.8 13.700)
• HB: Tin Srbic (CRO)->8th

WAG​

• VT: Csenge Maria Bacskay (HUN)->12th
• UB: Ahtziri Sandoval (MEX)->65th
• BB: Ana Perez (ESP)->67th
• FX: Sarah Voss (GER)->31st

2024 World cup series​

MAG​

• FX: Ryu Sunghyun (KOR)->10th, Aurel Benovic (CRO)->28th
• PH: Ahmad Abu Al Soud (JOR)->51st , Nariman Kurbanov (KAZ)->Silver
• SR: Vahagn Davtyan (ARM)->6th, Samir Ait Said (FRA)->4th
• VT: Shek Wai Hung (HKG)->14th, Mahdi Olfati (IRI)->7th
• PB: Angel Barajas (COL)->14th, Rasuljon Abdurakhimov (UZB)->22nd
• HB: Tang Chia-Hung (TPE)->Bronze, Robert Tvorogal (LTU)->18th

WAG​

• VT: An Chang Ok (KOR)->4th, Valentina Georgieva (BUL)->5th
• UB: Georgia-Rose Brown (NZL)->26th, Levi Ruivivar (PHI)->40th
• BB: Nina Derwael (BEL)->43rd, Ting Hua-Tien (TPE)->50th
• FX: Charlize Moerz (AUT)->70th, Laura Casabuena (ESP)->28th

We always knew the MAG specialists were more competitive but it's interesting to compare the placements. Striking how PB is an outlier.

Possibly only three falls among these gymnasts on their events in qualification (Derwael, Perez and Abu Al Soud).

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Interesting that several made a final in an event other than/as well as the one they qualified for. I know Derwael isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it would've been a shame if the format hadn't provided a gymnast of that calibre an opportunity to defend her title.

There's a gulf in quality between the WAG event specialists from worlds and those from the world cup circuit. The most successful EF individual gymnasts nearly all qualified through the AA instead.

 

[RAFIKI]

Yes I’m so glad the event qualifiers can do as many pieces as they want, much better than limiting them and it really doesn’t add much time.

 

[phoenix7]

Women's vault is an interesting outlier - all top 12 and two who could have been considered medal contenders. I suppose it's not as deep a field as the other apparatus.

 

[MaryClare]

Interesting that several made a final in an event other than/as well as the one they qualified for. I know Derwael isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it would've been a shame if the format hadn't provided a gymnast of that calibre an opportunity to defend her title.

There's a gulf in quality between the WAG event specialists from worlds and those from the world cup circuit. The most successful EF individual gymnasts nearly all qualified through the AA instead.

Sorry, but Derwael didn’t deserve to be there on the basis of finishing 4th on beam at some World Cup event. WAG doesn’t have the same quality outside of the top nations that exists in MAG. They need different qualification criteria. WAG would benefit much more from countries being given 3 and 2 non allocated spots

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Sorry, but Derwael didn’t deserve to be there on the basis of finishing 4th on beam at some World Cup event. WAG doesn’t have the same quality outside of the top nations that exists in MAG. They need different qualification criteria. WAG would benefit much more from countries being given 3 and 2 non allocated spots

Having dominated the series on her event, Nina isn't the one to hook that argument onto.

That said, I agree the field would be better if the teams just below the top 12 were given more spots. I don't think only allocating country spots to 13th-15th is beneficial in WAG either. Could legitimately go a couple more teams down. For example, Sweden finished 16th and qualified nobody.

 

[RAFIKI]

I have really enjoyed watching Sweden over the last few years. I hope they can qualify some gymnasts to LA. They remind me of Belgium a decade or so ago.

 

[Passion]

I loved having the World Cups as qualifiers. Though I'm biased because I've become attached to the World Cups series in general.

Next year they're upgrading two Challenge Cups into World Cups (Osijek and Antalya,) so the series will have six events instead of just four.

 

[RedBirdie]

But still no world.cups in the Americas or East Asia. The geographic disparity is really unacceptable.

 

[irichluck21]

I've been quiet because back to work for me sadly.
Thanks for the data I was hoping someone would do this because I was curious.

Charlize Moerz fell on floor. 6.533 D score.

 

[RAFIKI]

Charlize Moerz fell on floor. 6.533 D score.

Thanks, I should have noticed that one.

What do people think about the Tokyo vs Paris world cup series procedures? I liked that last quad/quint it was over multiple years because it minimised the chance of an injury stopping you trying this route. It also helps with the peaking/travelling problems. With qualified teams no longer allowed to have individuals, the Carey/Downie quandaries are no longer an issue. I also think there would have been less anger directed towards the USA->PHI gymnasts if the qualification procedure hadn't felt so compressed i.e. reduced the perception of a last ditch switch just for the Olympics.

I agree that the geographical distribution of world cup events is unfair. Is it the same problems as worlds with not many countries wanting to host?

 

[Passion]

But still no world.cups in the Americas or East Asia. The geographic disparity is really unacceptable.

There used to be one in Melbourne, I don't know what happened to that after 2020. The FIG did have the AA WC more spread out (Birmingham, Tokyo, USA.) I don't think they planned on that falling apart so suddenly with Covid.

They added Tashkent as a Challenge Cup for next year, a little further into Asia.

On pages 97-99 of the latest FIG Bulletin they discuss wanting to have World Cups across at least four continents. The head of the Competition Innovation Commission is Naomi Valenzo, who is also the president of PAGU. So they are moving in that direction. She also mentions wanting to get more of the top athletes participating, and suggests more prize money and having the WCups also qualify you to a new "superior" events, which I take to mean something similar to World Cup Final returning.

There's other good stuff in there, Valenzo wrote that specific report about the World Cups and the qualification pyramid:

FIG Bulletin 265

www.gymnastics.sport

 

[RAFIKI]

…suggests more prize money and having the WCups also qualify you to a new "superior" events, which I take to mean something similar to World Cup Final returning.

That would be great. I went to the WCF in 2000/2004/2008 and enjoyed them all. Nice mix of redemption stories, veterans, new skills and upcoming stars.

Heck if they run one next year it has the potential to be higher quality than Jakarta EFs given the crappy worlds format.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

I really wish they would bring back the AA world cups. They always got much better gymnasts than the apparatus world cups.

Winter cup is also a huge letdown compared to Scam.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

I loved the world cup finals in the 00s. Some bangers during that time period.

In terms of the Tokyo vs Paris individual qualification procedures, I'm one of the few people who actually liked the individual model for Tokyo. It was byzantine, yes, and not all of that was down to covid either. But in a sport where there's so much abuse and incompetence, things that shift the power balance a bit are refreshing. And I know in theory no federation had to allow an athlete to compete. But in practice, because nobody other than US WAG could be sure of getting 6 any other way, the big names still did.

 

[RAFIKI]

I would have loved to have seen how the AA series worked out. Darn Covid

 

[Bob]

I really wish they would bring back the AA world cups. They always got much better gymnasts than the apparatus world cups.

Winter cup is also a huge letdown compared to Scam.

Kind of hilarious that anything is a letdown in comparison to Scam. Was an awful comp. Glad it's gone.

 

[SBaity]

I loved the world cup finals in the 00s. Some bangers during that time period.

In terms of the Tokyo vs Paris individual qualification procedures, I'm one of the few people who actually liked the individual model for Tokyo. It was byzantine, yes, and not all of that was down to covid either. But in a sport where there's so much abuse and incompetence, things that shift the power balance a bit are refreshing. And I know in theory no federation had to allow an athlete to compete. But in practice, because nobody other than US WAG could be sure of getting 6 any other way, the big names still did.

I agree that there were pieces of the Tokyo model I liked. I really have always liked Jade and I really am not completely convinced that if she hadn't gone the WC route, that she would have made it to the Olympics. If she hadn't gone, who knows if we would have gotten to see her continue elite and make the team this year. I think it was helpful for the "non favorite" gymnasts. What I did not like, though, is how separate they were from the team. So overall I am glad we have moved away from that model, but it had its advantages.

 

[Sasha]

Kind of hilarious that anything is a letdown in comparison to Scam. Was an awful comp. Glad it's gone.

Yeah, I like Winter Cup much more than scam. Only the Americans showed up properly prepared for scam, so it's was always dreadfully predictable. Except that time that Mustafina came.

I prefer getting a sort of broad-scale update on where the US elites are at, rather than a slam-dunk of a World Cup.

 

[ArnoldRimmer]

Scam functioned best as a glorified US intrasquad. I was fine with it when it wasn't trying to be anything more.