FX EF INQUIRY (Jordan Chiles Stripped Of Bronze Medal/USAG launches appeal)

[Laura722]

Every other inquiry was rejected during the floor final. They should have kept that consistent and rejected the inquiry for Jordan. How did it get accepted if it was late?

 

[Laura722]

How could an inquiry be rejected if no one looked at the routine again?
My apologies. This is the part of the sport I lost interest in when the open-ended scoring system came about. I fell in love with gym in the late 80s.

I really don’t know how they decide to accept or reject the inquiries. I’m still learning things too, so if I’ve said something incorrect on this process, someone please correct me.

 

[Sasha]

When they say an inquiry was rejected, doesn't that mean that they reviewed the routine but maintained the original D-score? That's always been my understanding. If that's the case, they would have reviewed every routine for which inquiries were submitted, but only Jordan's was successful in having her score raised.

 

[CameliasFingerpaint]

Every other inquiry was rejected during the floor final. They should have kept that consistent and rejected the inquiry for Jordan. How did it get accepted if it was late?

That is not how inquiries work. “Every one of my students got an F on this quiz, so this kid who got an 80 should get an F, too!”

 

[Ginger]

I feel like the FIG really painted themselves into a corner when they refused to give Voinea the 0.1 ND back on the basis that her coaches inquired about the D, not the ND. At that point, they were stuck following every procedure to the letter, including the time limit on inquiries. Had they shown any leniency towards Jordan the Romanian federation would have absolutely exploded, and quite understandably so under the circumstances.

The thing is that the judges decisions from Monday should stand, IMO.
Maneca-Voinea was wrongly* given -0.1 for (supposedly) OOB. She could have inquired about it, and she didn't. So the judges decision stands.
Chiles supposedly filled her inquiry 4 seconds too late, and the judges made a mistake to accept it. Romanians should have protested right away. They didn't, so the judges decision should stand too.
*about Maneca-Voinea's OOB - the general assumption was that her heel went OOB when she turned before her second pass. Obviously it didn't, but it's not clear from the video whether her big toe touched OOB or not.

 

[irichluck21]

An inquiry being rejected or denied means the score didn't changed. Not that the judges didn't review the inquiry. If an inquiry is submitted the judges must review it.

 

[JusticeMom]

Ki

Jordan's claim would be about not overriding the call of the day. They don't usually let the monday morning quarterbacks point out that the ref's call at minute x would have given team Y the win or whatever. Honestly, I can't remember another time when an already awarded medal was removed for anything other than doping or age falsification or some other "nefarious" behavior of the winner (like a political slogan on the podium). Jordan might be the first.

This is a layperson's response. My husband pointed out this wouldn't happen in other sports (I pointed out one or two, lol). "Bad calls and rules are an unfortunate part of sports. Usually if it inspires officials and organizations to do better after the fact but results are not changed. "

I don't have a strong opinion on the bronze, as a I think you can make a legit case for all three athletes.

I do, however, have a very strong opinion that this is bad for gymnastics. I think is plenty of blame to go around with FIG being front and center.

 

[Laura722]

An inquiry being rejected or denied means the score didn't changed. Not that the judges didn't review the inquiry. If an inquiry is submitted the judges must review it.

Okay, thank you. Sorry for my silly error. I really thought they didn’t even look at the ones rejected.

But given that, the result still seems baffeling.

 

[J175]

@Laura722 They probably did (all) already script the exercise and just wanted to check the Gogean. :-/

Probably. Bearing in mind the inquiry won't really have started the second it was filed and will have finished before the revised score is inputted, time to get the video to the right place, actually watch the video, some discussion between the superior jury* etc, I really doubt they had time to review anything except the Gogean.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is common practice, which means gymnasts aren't getting the full inquiry they're entitled to (but in reality I wonder if it's more likely that potential downgrades aren't looked at)

* And leaving aside any other elements, if the Superior Jury looked at that Gogean and decided that one viewing and a very brief discussion was enough to overturn the decision of the D panel, I would argue that is serious malpractice. Even if you believe it should have been credited it certainly wasn't that clear.

 

[phoenix7]

The thing is that the judges decisions from Monday should stand, IMO.
Maneca-Voinea was wrongly* given -0.1 for (supposedly) OOB. She could have inquired about it, and she didn't. So the judges decision stands.
Chiles supposedly filled her inquiry 4 seconds too late, and the judges made a mistake to accept it. Romanians should have protested right away. They didn't, so the judges decision should stand too.
*about Maneca-Voinea's OOB - the general assumption was that her heel went OOB when she turned before her second pass. Obviously it didn't, but it's not clear from the video whether her big toe touched OOB or not.

I don't think I can agree with you there about Romania needing to protest on the spot.

There are rules about when you can submit an inquiry, but the rule for accusing FIG of breaking its own rules is that you use any internal procedures available and then may bring a case to CAS. Not everything can be done straight away.

 

[Caledi]

They are required to view the whole thing according to these tweets. That’s why you see other changes to the D score when an inquiry is granted.

Right, again, they can view the whole routine and fast-forward (while still viewing) the parts that don't correspond to elements.

 

[makam]

I don't think I can agree with you there about Romania needing to protest on the spot.

There are rules about when you can submit an inquiry, but the rule for accusing FIG of breaking its own rules is that you use any internal procedures available and then may bring a case to CAS. Not everything can be done straight away.

I agree with this. The thing that sticks sideway in my craw is that in the past, when the countries have been amenable to sharing the medal, that is what has been done. Never have they taken away the medal of someone who didn't do anything wrong. All the previous stripping of a medal reasons (aside from doping and age) were "this person in the 20s used an alternate name", "this person was paid to play their sport one time and thus aren't amateur", the medalist threw their medal on the ground in protest. There is literally no precedent for what they are doing to Jordan.

 

[Caledi]

I agree with this. The thing that sticks sideway in my craw is that in the past, when the countries have been amenable to sharing the medal, that is what has been done. Never have they taken away the medal of someone who didn't do anything wrong. All the previous stripping of a medal reasons (aside from doping and age) were "this person in the 20s used an alternate name", "this person was paid to play their sport one time and thus aren't amateur", the medalist threw their medal on the ground in protest. There is literally no precedent for what they are doing to Jordan.

In the women's 5k, they awarded 3rd place to Battocletti after disqualifying Kipyegon. Kipyegon appealed and a few hours later she was reinstated, meaning that Battocletti ended up 4th. I don't know when they actually held the medal ceremony, but if they held it right after the event like in gymnastics, the situation would be exactly the same. (In any case, I don't think possession of the medal per se should mean anything.)

 

[makam]

In the women's 5k, they awarded 3rd place to Battocletti after disqualifying Kipyegon. Kipyegon appealed and a few hours later she was reinstated, meaning that Battocletti ended up 4th. I don't know when they actually held the medal ceremony, but if they held it right after the event like in gymnastics, the situation would be exactly the same. (In any case, I don't think possession of the medal per se should mean anything.)

She was not given the medal and then had it taken away. The medal ceremonies for track and field are the next day. And I disagree that possession means nothing. If you have gotten on the medal stand, been feted for a few days, and in good faith thought you earned the prize, having it taken away from you after the fact has to hurt a shitton more than it happening before all the celebrations.

 

[Caledi]

She was not given the medal and then had it taken away. The medal ceremonies for track and field are the next day. And I disagree that possession means nothing. If you have gotten on the medal stand, been feted for a few days, and in good faith thought you earned the prize, having it taken away from you after the fact has to hurt a shitton more than it happening before all the celebrations.

Oh I agree it hurts, and the situation sucks for Jordan (and others). I just don't think it means anything in a procedural sense.

 

[Denn]

Every other inquiry was rejected during the floor final. They should have kept that consistent and rejected the inquiry for Jordan. How did it get accepted if it was late?

I guarantee you that they NEVER meant EXACTLY 1 minute, to the specific second.

 

[Sasha]

Why can't they just ...

 

[Seyonne]

there probably isn’t someone with a stopwatch. I’m sure it often gets fudged a bit. This is maybe just the first time someone made an appeal on the timing issue.

 

[Sasha]

there probably isn’t someone with a stopwatch. I’m sure it often gets fudged a bit. This is maybe just the first time someone made an appeal on the timing issue.

No, but if there's a time limit, arguably there should be a timer. Should be dead easy to implement too, just have a timer that's triggered when the final score gets entered into the system.

 

[QuietColours]

I can't access Twitter. Is this a real tweet? It would just US is planning an appeal.