Could Asher Hong's Vault get hit on D-score?

Welcome to our Gymnastics Message Board

Members see FEWER ads... so join today

Denn

Staff member
Defender


This is an incredibly hard vault, but I worry a little that the D-panel at the World Championships might credit only a 5.6 D-score for the “Zimmerman” vault. Here’s Golotsutskov doing. It’s a front entry and a half twist early (unlike the Dragulescu vault almost everyone else does — half twist at the end).



I don’t think that’s the fair thing to do, but they might say he’s not sideways enough on the table.
 
Last edited:
what it looks like Hong is doing is a Kas double back tucked. Golotsutskov’s looks like a front tuck with 1/2 turn into back tuck
 
Is there an example of someone who has been downgraded this reason? I must admit, I don’t have much sympathy if it gets downgraded. The vault says Tsukahara with full twist and shows a 1/2 turn from the table and then a full turn in the air…which literally nobody does, since they all use the cheating Kas technique.

It’s very interesting how there is no Double Tsuk 1/2 in the code. That would be a Kas entry into a double front, for the people using that technique. They need to start differentiating these vaults.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Admin
  • #5
Right, nobody has done a double Tsuk full, and I think Ri Se-Gwang’s vault, and every performance since, SHOULD be called a double Kasamatsu.

That said, I would not call the Kas technique “cheating”. The code has long been lazy about distinguishing Tsuk and Kas vaults. Who knows why people can’t get it right…

My concern is that the Worlds judges won’t credit it and credit a Zimmerman instead. “That’s not a sideways repulsion. It’s not even 1/8 of a turn. Downgrade.”

BTW — Someone has done side-spring (1/4 on) to double front — there was video on YouTube, but I can’t remember who. Never at an FIG competition though. The rating was discussed at the time — the same value as a double front.
 
Someone has done side-spring (1/4 on) to double front — there was video on YouTube, but I can’t remember who. Never at an FIG competition though. The rating was discussed at the time — the same value as a double front.
That’s interesting, it pokes a big hole in how the vaults are being assessed. The vault is a Tsuk 1/2, if they’re letting Kas technique be seen as equal to a real Tsuk, and giving it a 5.2 when the version with just 1/2 extra twist is valued at 6.0
 
  • Thread starter
  • Admin
  • #7
Right. And that goes full circle to my original point about D-score dropping 0.4 depending on what the judges think about his position on the table.
 
When I look at it in real time, it looks like a front handspring. When I slowed it down, it was clearer that he turned. I wonder what it looked like from where the judges were sitting.

I sort of doubt this will happen. The judges know what he’s “supposed to do”, so that’s what they will likely see if he gets anywhere close.
 

Welcome to our Gymnastics Message Board

Members see FEWER ads... so join today

Back